2 stroke law requirements - Page 2

Max... · 20 July 2018, 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by dredge3

...I have put Home Bargains part synthetic oils in cars. Its really good oil. Halfords oil is junk yet a fortune....

Just interested but what is the *actual evidence* behind that statement?

Poly · 20 July 2018, 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by dredge3

These outboards go through such harsh water, yet some carry a longer warranty. Honda 6 years. Honda motorcycles 1 year

Honda have never made 2 stroke outboards AFAIK.

Nos4r2 · 20 July 2018, 19:40

TCW-3 2 stroke is 'ashless'. IE, it doesn't foul pistons when run for long periods at constant throttle openings at high loads.

Normal 'Halfords type' 2 stroke relies on the constant micro-expansion/contraction of the piston from normal bike riding (IE, up and down gears etc) to stop the ash buildup.

Davie · 20 July 2018, 21:49

We used Castrol “R” in an premix 85 Yamaha when waterskiing just for the benefit of whoever was at the end of the rope and those downwind.

willk · 20 July 2018, 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulbrown22

Thanks Fenlander, happy to stand corrected - I should clearly stick to diesels!

A lot of this oil sh1t is less obvious than it seems. The stuff they spec for motorcycles is largely worthless for marine applications (Seagull outboards excepted) and it's more than worthless for garden 2 strokes - don't ask me how I know this!

pagick · 21 July 2018, 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max...

Just interested but what is the *actual evidence* behind that statement?

My new etec setup requires the service tec to put in the oil you are useing.
If you use the high end evenrude synthetic it injects 1/2 as much.
And about longevity- my 2018 came with a 10 year warranty.

Lastly, where do you guys live that have such restrictions on 2 stroke outboards?
In the US I don’t see any restrictions. My etec has a 5star emissions rating. 4 stroke have 7 stars I think.

mainbrayce · 21 July 2018, 09:10

Or,,,, You could just buy from Mainbrayce. They are outside the E.U. and not subject to the E.U. directive....

Max... · 21 July 2018, 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by pagick

...where do you guys live that have such restrictions on 2 stroke outboards?

Errrr, the UK, this is a UK forum - we're that little blob to the left hand side of the bigger bit with Russia at the other end...

jambo · 21 July 2018, 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max...

Errrr, the UK, this is a UK forum - we're that little blob to the left hand side of the bigger bit with Russia at the other end...

Think you’ll find we are a world wide forum[emoji106]

beamishken · 21 July 2018, 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by pagick

My new etec setup requires the service tec to put in the oil you are useing.
If you use the high end evenrude synthetic it injects 1/2 as much.
And about longevity- my 2018 came with a 10 year warranty.

Lastly, where do you guys live that have such restrictions on 2 stroke outboards?
In the US I don’t see any restrictions. My etec has a 5star emissions rating. 4 stroke have 7 stars I think.

I think the confusion here is when we talk about smaller old school two strokes we mean the old carb premix engines not the modern hpdi two strokes like the ETecs.
While your ETec may have a 10 year warranty I'd expect most modern engines would be ok up to that age unless they suffer water ingress or such which wont be covered by warranty anyway. No manufacturer will replace fuel system parts if you've had water contamination or a swamping.
The longevity issue will be as engines get older, we currently see many old school two strokes still running fine at 20 & even 30 years old and in the uk changing hands for good money.
Im mainly talking about smaler engines here sub 30 or 40hp because as the engines get larger the old school simple tec advantage diminishes.
Currently in the UK if i was in the market for a new small portable engine and could get hold of an old school two stroke rather than a modern injected 4 stroke then id do it. Ok if your only buying with the intention of swapping in after a few years but if you intend to keep for a long time then in my opinion simple is best (I have a 40hp yam and a 5hp I've owned for 20 years and 15 years no intention of swapping any time soon).
The move to low emission & 4 stroke engines isnt consumer lead its authority driven and would not have progressed so far without the emissions regs forced onto manufacturers

willk · 21 July 2018, 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max...

Errrr, the UK, this is a UK forum...

Disappointed to learn this. Next I'll be hearing it's an English forum! The owners are Americans....

....I'll get my passport coat

Max... · 21 July 2018, 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambo

Think you’ll find we are a world wide forum[emoji106]

Sorry - meant to say UK based* hence the majority of posters are from here and subject to UK/EU laws.

*edit - evidently wrong - see posts above below.

But basically I was trying to say the vast majority of posters are from this side of the pong and subject to EU law re' 2 strokes. I'll get my hat...

Max... · 21 July 2018, 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by willk

Disappointed to learn this. Next I'll be hearing it's an English forum! The owners are Americans....

....I'll get my passport coat

I stand corrected.

Poly · 21 July 2018, 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by mainbrayce

Or,,,, You could just buy from Mainbrayce. They are outside the E.U. and not subject to the E.U. directive....

The person putting it on the EU market for the first time is still subject to the Directives. That may be the buyer as importer, but anyone outside the EU actively promoting to export it to an EU country is potentially subject to the directives too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max...

But basically I was trying to say the vast majority of posters are from this side of the pong and subject to EU law re' 2 strokes.

As I understand it the US rules on 2 stroke emissions are very similar to the EU ones anyway!

beamishken · 21 July 2018, 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poly

The person putting it on the EU market for the first time is still subject to the Directives. That may be the buyer as importer, but anyone outside the EU actively promoting to export it to an EU country is potentially subject to the directives too.

I wonder if the whole thing is policed? And if so how rigourously? There seem to be many EU rules that get paid lip service too and dont appear to be policed at all.
Two that come to mind are Red diesel duty for pleasure boats
And ce approval of imported used boats

Poly · 21 July 2018, 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by beamishken

I wonder if the whole thing is policed? And if so how rigourously? There seem to be many EU rules that get paid lip service too and dont appear to be policed at all.
Two that come to mind are Red diesel duty for pleasure boats
And ce approval of imported used boats

The people responsible for policing it would be trading standards. Given their resources it’s unlikely to be high up their priorities compared to kids toys containing arsenic, counterfeit goods and straightforward con men. Because TS are local authority based its unlikely that every authority has someone who knows more that the basics about the RCD and barring a complaint you are likely to go unnoticed. Who might complain? At a push, perhaps an environmental group who feel their controls are being flouted, but more likely a competitor who thinks they are following the rules so why should they miss out because someone else is openly promoting their product.