2009 evinrude etec 40hp tt

[Scomich]

Hi Pikey,

Yeah it's not looking great, I got the bin home tested, still doing g the same thing, de idea try swap existing spark plugs in different cylinders the OK spark plug now being fouled by the bottom cylinder. My theory on that is coil pack possibly. What I did do was rev engine by throttle in engine just as I changed in to forward and it revved no problem. But won't idle. Still just conks out. Thought maybe adjust idle , might sort that out. But I take it they're is no idle adjust , that's also done by emm. I e not got a meter to measure I'll purchase 1 tomorow. Gut instinct says bottom injector, but an even worse instinct says emm . Hope not.

[TmMorris]

If the lower plug is fouling that would suggest that cylinder is getting good fuel and it's the upper one that's very lean? Unless it is weak spark but that's relatively easy to check.

[Scomich]

Hi TM,

Hm that makes sense also just thought nice brown spark plug was the norm. Black sooted up 1 not so good. But yeah changed the plugs and bottom cylinder sooting the plug up. I've got new spark plugs coming.not quite sure about the cleaning of these etec injectors , they ain't normal. Even have return outlet. You.thiik running some injector cleaner could/might help? Worth a bash?

[TmMorris]

Originally Posted by Scomich

Hi TM,

Hm that makes sense also just thought nice brown spark plug was the norm. Black sooted up 1 not so good. But yeah changed the plugs and bottom cylinder sooting the plug up. I've got new spark plugs coming.not quite sure about the cleaning of these etec injectors , they ain't normal. Even have return outlet. You.thiik running some injector cleaner could/might help? Worth a bash?

I'm really happy playing with engines on carbs because they don't mess with your mind. . They are dumb and when something isn't right it doesn't do anything to mess with you mind.

Once you have an engine with an ECU there are two brains mucking about with the same thing. While you're trying to trace an issue the other brain is changing things to try and mitigate that issue. It's a whole different sport to the point with some systems that it's become a game of chess and each move you make leads to a counter move and a change of the battle field.

However, I do believe in checking and confirming the basics as those don't change. It's still just a lump of metal that needs the right amount of fuel, right amount of air, right amount of spark all at the right time to work and bar mechanical failure nearly everything boils down to these base criteria.

Your problem points to a lack of fuel. Enough to fire the engine but not enough to meet the demand of running in gear.

There are a raft of possible reasons and when you have EFI and an ECU there are more than usual but we have a tendency to go complicated early and I tend to believe in ruling out the simplest stuff first as this is normally the cause.

To that end, you've done a lot of that, fuel supply looks to have been chased from tank to injectors so that we're just left with the possibility on that side of an injector being dirty or faulty or a fault in what's firing them.

At this point definitely check the quality of the spark. Just check that you've got a nice fat spark on each plug. It is possible that a weak spark could be a culprit. Things like HT leads wear out like batteries and battery cables. There's also never any harm in trying a fresh battery or bypassing the power leads just to rule out those simple wear and tear risks.

But if you're getting a good spark then for the time being you can put that area to one side for the time being.

While the plugs are out, have you tested each injector yet? Have you removed them from the cylinder so that you can see the quality of the fuel spray?

Excess air can replicate fuel starvation symptoms. This is probably the least likely issue but a quick compression test would settle that mainly.

My one thought this morning is whether the ECU is smart and has detected a flow problem with the top injector and a reduced flow and made adjustments to compensate which work on the basis that it's safer to over fuel the other cylinder versus this one running lean and over heating? Hence why the top plug is nice and brown and the lower sooted.

My gut feeling is that you've narrowed it down to either fuel starvation on the top cylinder or bad spark in the bottom? This could be component issue which you can test yourself or electronic whereby I'd be aiming to get as much diagnostics to see if that told me the issue before surrendering and running to someone who knows what they're doing.

One quick thought, are the HT leads the same length etc? If so and if the sparks from each plug don't seem equal then you could try removing the leads and swapping them over just to check that one of those hasn't degraded?

The fact that you have two cylinders behaving differently is a good clue. It does help to suggest that if this isn't electronics then you either have bad fueling on one cylinder at the point of injection, a bad spark on one cylinder or have a loss of compression on one cylinder.

You say you've run the engine a few times and it's only the 4th time when this issue appeared? Have all 4 uses been in the same time period? Has each fuel purchase been from the same location?

There's always the possibility that while you can't see any crud or gunge in the fuel system there was a little bit of water and it's ended up in an injector.

Have you had each injector out of its cylinder and checked the quality of the fuel spray, sorry I can't recall if this has been done yet?

[Scomich]

Hi TM,

All.good points and a lot I've not checked, I did remove the injectors but these evinrude injectors are pretty strange so I had no way that I could see that I could bench test at the moment. I didnt think about the swapping ht leads around. And yeah they are both exactly same length. All fuel was bought from same shell garage always e5. And filters on the pick up In tank , filter which I think is in the diaphragm going.into engine all clean, also changed in line filter. It's the 2 led warnings on the emm that's worrying. But I've also read these Emm's can keep old codes. Battery seems fine. But I'll have that checked and also check that emm is charging the battery as that seems to be or could be 1 of the issues. But again after reading I believe these engines can run without a battery. What you think k about the injector cleaner in fuel is that even worth a bash at this point ?

The spark I also need to check but as I said I put in gear yesterday in bin and throttled up using throttle under cowl. It revved sounded good. And immediately blew all the water out the bin. Lol. But back at idle it died again. Started again no probs and idled but when using throttle lever done the usual 3-5 seconds and cut out in forward and reverse .

[Seaflyer02]

You can pull the codes manually from the ECU on the ficht so I assume the Etec are the same. Turn the master switch off for ten minutes, take the TPS off the engine leaving it connected, turn the power back on and the ignition (don't try starting it), move the arm on the TPS three times the full range, and then put a rubber band around it to simulate wide open throttle. The four red lights should start to flash a sequence - just count the numbers and you then have the codes

[Scomich]

Hi seaflyer,

When you say remove the TPS do you mean take it off but leave plugged in? My TPS is fitted with these top hat looking fittings rivets if you wanna call them that, can they be refitted or would I need new ones? Or can this be done in situ just disconnect from throttle body , ie the bar that pushes it? I know this would still open the air inlet . Would that work for the codes or does it have to be taken off so air intake dosnt move?

[TmMorris]

Originally Posted by Scomich

Hi TM,

All.good points and a lot I've not checked, I did remove the injectors but these evinrude injectors are pretty strange so I had no way that I could see that I could bench test at the moment. I didnt think about the swapping ht leads around. And yeah they are both exactly same length. All fuel was bought from same shell garage always e5. And filters on the pick up In tank , filter which I think is in the diaphragm going.into engine all clean, also changed in line filter. It's the 2 led warnings on the emm that's worrying. But I've also read these Emm's can keep old codes. Battery seems fine. But I'll have that checked and also check that emm is charging the battery as that seems to be or could be 1 of the issues. But again after reading I believe these engines can run without a battery. What you think k about the injector cleaner in fuel is that even worth a bash at this point ?

The spark I also need to check but as I said I put in gear yesterday in bin and throttled up using throttle under cowl. It revved sounded good. And immediately blew all the water out the bin. Lol. But back at idle it died again. Started again no probs and idled but when using throttle lever done the usual 3-5 seconds and cut out in forward and reverse .

It really does sound like fuelling doesn't it.

Can you test the injectors by removing them from the cylinder but still plugged in? With the HT leads off the plugs. Will the ECU allow that?

I'd be half expecting to see one with a different spray to the other

[Metz Antenna Man]

Scomich, about revving in neutral, I’m not sure if your throttle is the same as ours, but we have an Evinrude 200 with a BRP (Bombardier recreational Products I believe) throttle. It’ll say BRP on the side if it is. If you press in the centre of the handle on the lower side where it pivots, then put into forward, it disengages the prop and you can rev away in a bucket or container. Just try it carefully.
I know that two safety boat / PB2 course ribs at our sailing club have Evinrude 90hps and they have the identical BRP throttle which does the same thing.
As regards flushing, We used to have a 1000lt IBC which comes as a cubic meter, cut into half so that it was 500lt. It’s the things that you see in horse fields, a plastic container encased in a metal framework. We could run the engine in gear in that container but if you gave it any throttle it would throw most of the water out. Once I realised that we didn’t need the capability to do that, we got rid of it due to the size and the space that it took up. You can get them for just under £70 if you have the space. Now we just use a flush bag but never engage gear when revving otherwise it will shred the bag.
Although it’s not entirely relevant, we have a Suzuki 2.5 for a tender. The engine has a carb. That developed a problem and would cut out under load on the water but run all day in a flush bucket. It was hard to work out why. It was only when I stripped the carb down completely and cleaned all the jets with carb cleaner that this stopped happening. There was a minute bit of grit in one of the jets. I remembered an Instructor telling me, when I first started boating, that 95% of engine problems are fuel supply related and he wasn’t wrong.
Good luck with it. With best regards, Phil.

[Pikey Dave]

You could start the engine & then unplug the injectors in turn & see what happens. If un plugging either injector makes it worse, then chances are it isn’t an injection issue. You can do the same for the coils & the plugs. The diagnostic software allows you to do what I’ve just described via the laptop. You can switch off individual injectors & coils via the software.

[Scomich]

Thanks all. I'm just pulling at straws here and had a daft idea change the coil pack see if that alternates the fouled plug. It did. Probs that should have been 1 of the first things tried no doubt. I've still not received my volt meter thing. Again probs should have just bought from argos. So I'm no I the way of thinking its a coil pack. I will look up how to test those and do that. How stupid am I gonna a feel if it is. But I consider myself still a newbie willing to learn. And I now know this engine quite well. I think. Also it all the parts got a nice clean while at it. As I say will look up how to test coils. Do that and order if need be. Will let you know the outcome either way. No laughing to hard if it ends up just being a coil.

[TmMorris]

That's a bit of good news. There's no real downside of you manage to find and fix the issue yourself. As you say, you'll know the engine far, far better and have a lot more faith in it.

[Scomich]

Hi guys,

Of proven to be a bad coil. Still to.test.that theory. I used to have a v6 golf that loved coils going bad, am I as well replacing both or is the 1 OK. Was advised with the golf if 1 went the others will follow which was proven to be true.

Second question any.good resources for acquiring these parts evinrude parts not many people in Scotland that I can find to interested. Can find second hand ones. But i dont think that's a route I wanna go down. Nothing against second hand used parts but with a coil if that's what's required it could end up false economy. Cheers

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Scomich

Hi guys,

Of proven to be a bad coil. Still to.test.that theory. I used to have a v6 golf that loved coils going bad, am I as well replacing both or is the 1 OK. Was advised with the golf if 1 went the others will follow which was proven to be true.

Second question any.good resources for acquiring these parts evinrude parts not many people in Scotland that I can find to interested. Canfield d second hand ones. But i dont think that's a route I wanna go down. Nothing against second hand used parts but woth a coil if that's what's required it could end up false economy. Cheers

My goto man for all things Etec, was Mike Vincent at south coast marine In Christchurch. I think Mike has retired now, but the business is still going & they always carried plenty of stock.

[Scomich]

Hi Pikey ,

Thanks for that will look them up. Cheers

[TmMorris]

I would think that common sense is to replace all of them. Murphy's Law dictates that the one you don't replace will decide to follow its mate as soon as it is most inconvenient. Agree also on the sentiment re used. I try and utilise used parts as much as possible but with consumable electronic components you just don't know how much as been consumed already.

Will plugging it in to a laptop help confirm the diagnosis before spending the money?

[Scomich]

Wee update.

OK so tried new spark plugs think I said that already. Coils I got 2 used but told newish. Same problem. Had it ticking over no probs for ages. And now and again it would run in forward or reverse. Just to add also fitted new ht leads. And I did run injector cleaner thru fuel as well. Still same . And still the 2 leds at top lit when running. Which sticker advises charging problem which they're ain't 14 odd volts at battery when running. The other suggests ignition /injector fault. Think it's time I hand it in somewhere and try to be patient. It's beyond my capabilities now I feel. But hey I tried. Lol.

[Scomich]

If its a grand for a new emm fine I'll swallow that. If its more than that , I'll buy another engine. Mitchell's marine Glasgow supplied the coils. Decent price as well 2 for £100 brand new they are £114 each he said. But also checked his supplier said none in the country. So be interesting if it needs more parts how they shall be sourced. Then I'm gonna have trust issues, when I'm out in it. Time for a small auxiliary as well maybe. Lol.

Wish I'd never got rid of my yamaha 2t 6hp looked like a dog but never let me down after I had gear seals done. Done over 600 miles with that thing. Usually flat out. Oh well. Lol

[TmMorris]

Ok. So a pair of new plugs and coils and you had the engine running for a while. How do the plugs look?

If they now both look ok then you may have fixed an issue that was there but not the main one.

Have you had the injectors spraying removed from the head yet? I know I've asked a few times but I may have missed the answer.

[Scomich]

Hi TM,

Yeah new plugs, I actually got 2 new sets, didnt realise I had ordered from 2 seperate places. Lol. And yeah 2 newish coils I was told which I believe they look new. As per the injectors I did have them off but couldn't see a way of bench testing, etec injectors are pretty strange. But not tried removing and firing engine.
I take it you mean just turn key and check the spray. I did have it running yesterday for ages tick over mostly as I had added some fuel injector cleaner in fuel. Plug still fouling, albeit I did get in gear a couple of times and it ran. Couldn't do this for long as it blew water out bin. And then decided to conk out again when put back in neutral. Still those pesky leds lit when running. Diagnostic needed I think. Mitchell's Glasgow can do it. But says he's very busy. My thinking as I've already purchased something from him now he may run a diag for me. I think I'm at the limit as to what I can do myself. Bar the injector check if you mean take off and just turn key to check spray. Still find it strange when I swapped old coils the problem moved cylinder which points to coils. In my mind. But maybe I'm way off.