2stroke V 4stroke consumption chart - Page 3

codprawn · 25 May 2005, 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaharrier

Nick,

I have a 250HP E-Tec and till now we are very pleased with it. So far we have used it 35 hours. Till now, the strongest points we have noticed are
- the engine starts immediately within the first second
- the engine has lots of torque and a good top end speed (comparable to the Yamaha 250 VMax)
- the engine is very quiet at idle and low RMP’s. Between 1500-4000 RMP’s it makes a nice deep sound but not too loud and above 4000 RMP I can’t hear it any more due to the wind.
- Fuel economy is OK. At WOT it burns 85l/hour. But our average till now is around 25l/hour.
- the oil ratio is about 1l oil versus 70l fuel
- the only maintenance intervention we had till date was changing the gear case oil after 10 hours. Next maintenance should be within almost 265 hours.

Paul

Good fuel figures - i could live with those!!! How do you measure them? Do you have a fuel computer???

Seaharrier · 25 May 2005, 17:48

The engine comes along with a smartcraft gauge. It tells you the fuel flow, fuel remaining, used fuel and total fuel used.

Every time we full up our rib I control the remaining amount of fuel according to the gauge. On 200l there is a difference of 1 l.

At 25 mph we burn between 25-30l.
At 30 mph it’s between 35-40l.

quinquarimarine · 25 May 2005, 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono

Thank you for your input, that is an interesting observation, John. Are you, if I read you correctly, inferring that most people don’t bother to set up a boat as well as you do? It’s just that Andy and Frank put an awful lot of sea time and effort into setting up my boat and I’d be very disappointed if I thought they weren’t experienced enough to get it right. Should I be going back to them and saying that my boat should be more economical to run? Bearing in mind we set the boat and prop for the conditions that my boat has run at most of the time.

Also I’m intrigued by your question of the choice of two strokes for commercial use and the inference that it because of better fuel consumption figures. I understand that people who need to do maintenance “in the field” would choose two strokes and that people who expect their engines to be abused and need overhauling would choose two strokes, or that people who need to go as fast as light as possible would choose two strokes.

Where do you get the figure of 90% from? I appreciate you have vastly more experience than most of us in the commercial field, but I have been wracking my brains to think of all the commercial RIBs that I can and can only think of ones with four strokes or diesels. Is the two-stroke “market” a particular sector of the commercial boat world? Off shore/Rig work?

Cheers, Jono

Jono,

Thanks for your points.

With regards to setting up then my coments certainly do not include Andy or Frank or infact other manufacturers. Invariably it is the consumer or end user that can cause issues by dictating a certain engine or layout. Whilst the builder will have the expertise the client will often push in a certain direction for an engine on the basis of perceived fuel figures. Most customers also push for max speed and this can be costly in terms of fuel.

In fairness it is much easier to balance a 10m or larger than say a 5m for obvious reasons. What you can try is using your variable masses (people/equipmment) around and seeing if there is a change in speed and consumption.

Hulls must be kept clean. A moored vessel with a thin veneer of slime will add at least 15% to fuel. Plugs also. Change them before they break down and on a new set you can see up to 10% fuel saving. Top this off with a regular dolup of decarb/engine tunner.

Even steering will add to the equation. A poorly fitted cable steering will require a lot of course corrections as a result of oversteer. A well fitted hydraulic stystem will require less and thus fuel agin.

All in all the are a multitude of reasons that will affect fuel rates and what I am suggesting is that there is no genuine level playing field for test data. Indeed much testing is on US bass boats where there is little comparison to our uses. Thus when chosing an engine pay more attention to things like power to weigth ratios/a sensible max speed/layout of the vessel etc etc and a little less to manufacturers figures.

My quote of 90% use 2 strokes is in the larger pax RIBS. We have purchsed over 40 200-250hp engines this winter with only one pair being 4 stroke. We are about to evaluate a pair of YAM250 four strokes and a pair of Suzi 250 four strokes but for acceleration we prefer the 2 strokes and find that with the likes of ETEC there is no fuel diff. The Suzi 250 looks like it may be a contender.

On the ETECS we have fitted a number of 200 and 225s, all in pairs. We also use these in our own pax ops. A few hundred hours have been clocked and they would seem to be the dogs danglies. Give it another 1000 hours and we will know for sure.

Cheers

John
www.quinquari.co.uk

codprawn · 25 May 2005, 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by quinquarimarine

On the ETECS we have fitted a number of 200 and 225s, all in pairs. We also use these in our own pax ops. A few hundred hours have been clocked and they would seem to be the dogs danglies. Give it another 1000 hours and we will know for sure.

Cheers

John
www.quinquari.co.uk

Do you use the proper ETEC oil or an oil of the right spec - ie TCW3 non branded? Loads of people claim you MUST use Evinrude oil and yet apparently in the manual it states oil of the right spec.

quinquarimarine · 26 May 2005, 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

Do you use the proper ETEC oil or an oil of the right spec - ie TCW3 non branded? Loads of people claim you MUST use Evinrude oil and yet apparently in the manual it states oil of the right spec.

There are 2 options of oil ... XD 100 and XD 50. We have tried both and whilst the XD 100 is a seriously high grade the engines work well on XD 50.

If you cannot source the proper stuff then yes you can resort to TCW111. If you want to cahnge from 50 to 100 or vs versa then you need to reprog the ECU.

XD 100 costs more but useage is abot 40% less. Taking into account costs vs savings the XD100 will cost about 10% more but is good for heavy applications plus sub zero temps.

All in all though the oil use of these engines is tiny.... we got worried on first trials as they were using so little.

Cheers

John
www.quinquari.co.uk

gavin · 30 May 2005, 19:54

Before the oil changed to the xd branded stuff you used to run Ficht oil, it has a carb x additive to help keep the injection system carbon free.The xd 25 is just regular tcw3 the xd 50 is semi synthetic the xd 100 fully so, as said you can run the ETEC on either, depending on what you run, you need to tell it via laptop so that it burns accordingly, xd 100 in Dublin 55 euro a US gallon.
I wouldnt dare run any other oil in an Etec especially while in warranty

codprawn · 30 May 2005, 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by gavin

Before the oil changed to the xd branded stuff you used to run Ficht oil, it has a carb x additive to help keep the injection system carbon free.The xd 25 is just regular tcw3 the xd 50 is semi synthetic the xd 100 fully so, as said you can run the ETEC on either, depending on what you run, you need to tell it via laptop so that it burns accordingly, xd 100 in Dublin 55 euro a US gallon.
I wouldnt dare run any other oil in an Etec especially while in warranty

Do they actually SAY other oil will void the warrenty then???

Seaharrier · 30 May 2005, 20:58

The manual states only to use Evinrude genuine products.

jwalker · 30 May 2005, 22:14

But, don't they all?

Searider · 30 May 2005, 22:34

Cods,

The trade in price on a Ferrari is VERY heavily dependent on mileage. The cost of fuel is immaterial in comparison so not really a factor in this debate.
Ask your mate about Carbon Metallic brakes at £30,000 per set (yes that is thirty thousand pounds per set) at 10,000 miles - a friend sold his stradale because it cost more to run than his 55 Squadron and Blade runner put together.

Basically, your boat, whatever it turns out to be, will do between 1 and 2 litres per mile.

It will be fun and you will have a smile like a Cheshire Cat!

Fun costs, but not as much as it could

Duncan

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

My mates only does about 6000 miles a year in his Ferrari - it is his weekend toy and it would lose too much value if he racked up the mileage - at an average of 15mpg = 400 gallons of petrol.

My RIB with a 225 2 stroke will prob use 80 gallons every time I take her out (4hrs x 20gph).

I would LIKE to use my RIB for - say 2 day a week for 20 weeks a year = 3200 gallons!!!

I know servicing a Ferrari aint cheap but then neither is mooring a RIB.

Wish I hadn't worked this out - it actually costs a lot more to run a RIB than a Ferrari!!!

Depreciation isn't a problem with the Ferrari either if you keep the mileage down because of the extended waiting times - he will soon be taking delivery of a new F430 which people are selling USED for £40,000 more than they cost new!!!

codprawn · 31 May 2005, 02:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Searider

Cods,

Basically, your boat, whatever it turns out to be, will do between 1 and 2 litres per mile.

It will be fun and you will have a smile like a Cheshire Cat!

Fun costs, but not as much as it could

Duncan

It is NOT the paying for it - it is paying MORE than you should for what is often EXACTLY the same product!!! Evinrude do NOT make oil - they just get one of the big makers to supply it to them - package it carefully - and then rip everyone off!!!

I suspect the proper oil is made by Castrol for them - IF only people could find out the exact one!!!

Seaharrier · 31 May 2005, 06:29

Can't you buy it in bulk?

gavin · 31 May 2005, 18:10

there is a large drum p/n somewhere for the ficht stuff anyway, aslo in the US most users arrive with empty can and fill from a dealers drum,
I wouldnt dismiss the oil that easily, you need to run the proper stuff

Seaharrier · 06 June 2005, 17:37

Last weekend we went on a 2 day trip with some rib’s. There were 2 Rib’s with the new Yamaha 250 HP four stroke engine. It’s very impressive engine. One rib was a Capelli 750. Acceleration and top speed are almost the same as on my rib. Although it’s hard to compare when the engines are not mounted on comparable ribs (mine is heavier). Not only the power is impressive, also the fuel efficiency. At WOT 75l/hour against 85 l/h for my E-Tec.

gingercoastie · 06 June 2005, 18:09

Seaharrier,

How accurate are you finding the fuel used on the Smarcraft guages.

After my scillies trip according to the fuel used i should have had 150 litres left, but my fuel guage was showing nearly empty, so therefore the low fuel alarm was going off (very annoying)

Seaharrier · 06 June 2005, 20:06

I’m not that happy with the Smartcraft from Evinrude. I have my rib for 10 weeks and it will be the second time they will have to replace the fuel managing system. An other guy with also the same gauges has the same problem. But when it works, it’s very accurate. During one of my last trips I used 169L of fuel and when I filled up the boat at the pump I could add 167L. Maybe you could try to calibrate yours manually?

Are you happy with your Verado’s? At first I was in for a 275 Verado but after having heard my dealer I took the Evinrude E-Tec, with no regrets.

gingercoastie · 06 June 2005, 20:32

Totally happy with the Verado's.

I would calibrate the tank, but filling a 500ltr tank in one go would involve a marina, and at their petrol prices that is a rather expensive option, if I can rely on the fuel used instead.

Daniel · 06 June 2005, 22:46

Alex i've run over 6000 litres through Top-Banana and rely upon the SmartCraft "fuel used" 100% - it's rarely (if ever) more than a litre out - and i reckon this is usually an airlock. I totally ignore the "low fuel" warning from the float gauge, although i have tried to calibrate the tank, i know i have about 80li left when that starts going!

Interestingly disconnecting the float gauge gives this low fuel warning all the time, yet connecting the two leads did not make it show a full tank.

gingercoastie · 07 June 2005, 09:01

Thanks Daniel, I will sleep easier now.