3 Minute wonder...revisited

[Brinormeg]

Well we managed to get the Excel Volaire out to try a second time, and to decide if our Loch Awe trip issue was Operator stupidity or Outbaord Error with the new Suzuki 20hp that developed engine problems, with the red light coming on.

Fog last weekend ruined our plans, but we took the advice from here and tried Cruden bay in amazing boating conditons tonight. No wind, no waves, clear skies, and a really great day for our first time at sea.

Got a good half hour with no problems, building up our confidence a little and running in the engine a bit more to 3500/4000 rpm.

But eventually the engine light came on again, and OB went into a limp mode.

So now we know it isnt just us not noticing weed or a bag being sucked up.

Shut the engine off to cool and just drifted a little while. Started it again and just crept back into harbour again.

Have added a couple of videos to see what you guys think. Not very good quality, but anyway I am still not convinced the pee was great, with more of a splatter than a good steady flow compared to others Ive watched on youtube. But having no outboard experience we have nothing to compare to.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/HpEYaeqEIEE

1000-15000rpm

https://youtube.com/shorts/W9cugj5nloI?feature=share
2700/2800

https://youtube.com/shorts/hpH3I1ouRkQ?feature=share
Once red light on

So now to stick it on the diagnostics in the morning, but expect the same as last time with the "Overheat Gradient error" causing the enigine to go to limp mode (to avoid overheating damage I am guessing.)

Then email with a follow up phone call to Terry at Excel.....then take it from there! But at least we know now there is a potential overheat issue that needs looked at.

Dissapointing on a new Outboard.....after all, the reason we bought new in the first place was reliabilty, as apposed to chancing our luck buying second hand when we had no boating knowledge except that gained here from you guys!

[Oldman2]

Whats the tell tail water stream like and how hot is it because I dont see one at all in the 3rd video with red light is on. Its not exactly a fire engine in video one either.

[chipko]

Agree, tell tale flow appears negligible, should be strong at anything above tickover. Seem to recall you had concerns and no tell tale on start up when first purchased.

I’d not be tinkering with a new motor under warranty, take it to your local Suzuki dealer, doesn’t need to be the purchasing dealer. Understand motor didn’t have first service at scheduled time, but neither has it any hours on. Hopefully Suzuki will treat this sympathetically and honour warranty.

[TmMorris]

I've zero experience of Suzuki engines but working on the premise that the basic laws of physics arguably apply to all manufacturers then that water stream appears very weak.

I would have expected it not to be curbing out gently but a direct squirt and with enough force to see where it's hitting the water.

My wild guess is that there is a blockage somewhere. It might be down in the leg but in someways, as it's a brand new engine it may well be some casting or manufacturing muck in a water galley.

If I recall, haven't you documented your use of this engine from the moment you bought in on this forum? Was it you last summer posting questions about whether these outboards should be peeing when cold or not? If so then that would be good evidence alongside the data logs for Suzuki to be able to take into account global lockdown conditions and upended lifestyles and not be silly and stick to the absolute letter of their warranty which could be construed as egregious and not ideal for PR.

I wouldn't approach the company direct but via the dealer you purchased it from as they are the entity with the weight and relationship and are more likely to be listened to.

I think I'd pen an email to the vendor nicely explaining the problem, attaching links from here dating back to purchase and those videos, asking their advice on what the issue is likely to be on this engine just out of its box. I'd then follow it up later that day with a phone call. I'd be working on the fair assumption that everyone involved in the transaction will do the right thing not necessarily the legal thing.

[Fenlander]

None of those videos give the best view of the pee stream and I know from own experience the shutter speed or video frame rate of a camera or phone can give an image that makes the stream look more intermittent than viewed directly.

However it does look weak and added to the overheat warning I'd agree with the advice above... looks like the outboard has an inherent water flow fault. Get onto the dealer as your relationship is with him rather than directly with Suzuki.

Remember you are protected by consumer law over and above any wording in a warranty... a consumer law case can be fought on the basis of what can be reasonably expected from an item. You'd hope though Terry would do the right thing as I'm sure he's happy to take the business when folks on here encourage others to buy Excel models... the flipside would be to go above and beyond to help a forum member.

[Steve509926]

Hi Brian, I had a chat with my daughter this morning with regard to your plight. Up until two years ago she taught law at a sixth form college.

This is her take on it:-

Under no circumstance should you attempt to fix the problem yourself, as any warranty or more importantly "Manufacturers Liability" will be void. Non invasive investigation isn't a problem.

You can if you wish take it back to the "retailer" from where you purchased it, but as its over 12 month ago and due to the distance involved you are probably better dealing with an authorised Suzuki dealership. She advises writing/emailing Suzuki asking them which nearby dealership they would like you to use.
Whithin that email you should outline the problem, mention how little the OB has been used, and even though the first (20hr) service schedule hasn't been done, you think the problem is likely to be caused by a manufacturing defect which should be covered for up to 2 years.

You are covered under the Consumer Protection Act for manufacturing defects, irrespective of any manufacturers service schedule, providing that the fault is not caused by an operational issue or a serviceable item that would have been checked during service and has worn causing the problem.

She has said that she would not mention the CPA at this stage as it can put unnecessary obstacles in the way.

Good luck ��

[Fenlander]

For interest here is mine at idle with its normal good pee steam.

[spartacus]

Cruden Bay is a cracking harbour to launch from in the right conditions. The stretch of water south to Cruden Scaurs is shallow relatively speaking, so good test area.

Back to your engine. Call Suzuki and see what your options are. You need complete faith in the engine, and right now that's zero.

Dealer wise there's Gael Force Marine in Inverness, and Cameron at Clyde Outboards in Glasgow.

Water tell tale looks poor so either its partially blocked or there's an issue with the impeller.

Hope you get it sorted soon.

[Brinormeg]

Thanks Guys and those who commented on the old thread as well

We have never been 100% sure about the flow, and perhaps if we had previous knowledge of outboards we would have been more certain if there was an issue or not.

Looking back old posts, ours never did work in that size of bucket and needed to be much higher up, above the anti-cavitation plate at the back, and there was no flow when we tried muffs once either. Flow didn't quite have the throw yours did either David , but cant be sure.

My theory (but no idea really) is that there might be a restriction of some sort as you guys say, and that when hitting higher revs it either moves to block, or there just isnt enough flow to cool with the increased heat being created.
Also perhaps the turbulance created by the outboard when going faster also effects the intake as it is already poor.
Hopefully no damage was done to the impeller etc when trying to get it to pee at the start of course.

Have decide to email Terry/Excel and Suzuki for advice and information moving forward.

Explain the situation, and the issue that seems to have been from new.

Terry has actually been fine to deal with so far concerning the poor quality control issues we had, and although Ive not updated my original Excel thread yet, we did come to an agreement on the problems.

I will of course mention the support I have recieved from the forum, and direct to my honest, but not quite completed "Excel experience so far" thread and "Pee isues threads" with all that was good, bad and indifferent, if need be.

Will keep you informed how things are going, and hopefully be out on the water again soon to gain a bit more experience.

A bit scarey the first time to be honest, but at least it got soon to be 18 year old son off his phone for a couple of hours, and communicating using actual speech instead of grunts

On doing a search on Suzuki website for dealers, they directed me to a Mclachlan Marine at Fordoun which would be very handy if they do still exist and have a repair/warranty facility.

Has anyone heard or have experience of them?
Their website seems to suggest they are a supply of boats for inspection and surveys.... but might give them a call anyway, and will email Suzuki to see who they would suggest near my location.