30 to 50hp upgrade

Phil Davies · 27 August 2003, 17:41

Want to upgrade my Honda 30 to a new 50hp on my 4.0m Avon Searider but confused which to choose. 50p is max capacity for boat and max transom weight is 110kgs. Am looking at Honda(92kg), Suzuki 4 Stroke EFi(110kgs), the new Evinrude Etec(108kg) and Yamaha 2 Stroke(103kgs). All are 50hp and with power trim/tilt which I want.
Like light weight and 5yr guarantee of Honda, but happy to consider alternatives. Proximity of dealer not a problem, all are nearby for these brands. Yamaha is certainly the cheapest.
-Does slight extra weight of other engines affect performance?
-Is noise and smoothness an issue if I choose 2-stroke or doesn't it matter at this size of engine?
-Have heard issues of chine walking if stern too heavy. would this be a problem with the heavier engines?
Would appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.

thewavehumper · 27 August 2003, 18:22

I personally think it's an outrage to put a wussy 4 stroke engine on an Avon Sea Rider. The best engine for your boat is the Yamaha 2 stroke in my opinion. The build construction of the Yammie is also hard to beat.

I am not sure about this but I think Honda measures its Power output at the Crankshaft, but the others do it at the Prop. If that is the case then work out the power to weight ratio and you may find the Honda isn't the best.

Cant speak about the other two engines as I have no experience.

Cheers
Stuart

mccabe · 27 August 2003, 18:42

Hi There,
Would recommend the Yamaha 50hp 2 stroke. It comes with a tach and power/tilt digital indicator and various warning gizmos.
I have had no problems and the cold start ignition is a dream.Power output is quick and responsive and fuel consumption is very good for a two stroke.
Regards

thewavehumper · 27 August 2003, 19:08

Right that's settled it then buy the Yammie

DM · 27 August 2003, 19:10

Quote:

Originally posted by THEWAVEHUMPER
I personally think it's an outrage to put a wussy 4 stroke engine on an Avon Sea Rider.

Yes Humper. Outrageous!!!! How dare he even consider it. Yellow card and a visit to the Yammie shop for P.D. p.d.q.

D.M.

Phil Davies · 27 August 2003, 21:55

I take it you recommend the Yamaha then boys? Never realised there was quite such feeling against 4-strokes!! Thanks a lot for your comments, you've virtually convinced me in favour of 2-stroke, though I imagine trade-in value will plummet after 2006 legislation(?)

stuart hedges · 27 August 2003, 22:58

We have Ribtec 455 with a Yammy 50hp 4 stroke and it goes like a rocket, you can't hear it, and you don't have to fill it up with oil.

I reckon you are bonkers to get a 2 stroke in this kind of hp.

Alex Brown · 28 August 2003, 02:03

I know they're rarely thought of, but have you considered the Tohatsu 50 TLDI engine? - it's still a 2-stroke, but with some technology inside...
http://www.tohatsu.com/outboards/50tldi.html

You should also find that the price is pretty competitive too.

I still like my ultra quiet 4-stroke

-Alex

thewavehumper · 28 August 2003, 05:22

Quote:

Originally posted by H2O Events
We have Ribtec 455 with a Yammy 50hp 4 stroke and it goes like a rocket, you can't hear it, and you don't have to fill it up with oil.

I reckon you are bonkers to get a 2 stroke in this kind of hp.

Hi Stuart,

That's a good one a Ribtec 4.5 owner telling other people they are Bonkers!

For the record I am not against 4 strokes I just think Opti's and Yammi 2 strokes represent excellent value and unbeatable power

Like yourself I own several boats which include 2stroke, 4 stroke and diesel engines. From a 15 hp Honda to a 425hp CAT. Of all the boats I have driven the one that makes me feel most alive and at one with the sea is the Avon SR 4.7.

Sea Riders are not smooth boats and by design they run very light when planing. When I am driving mine I realy like the snap of the 2 stroke and the usable power band is at times close to frightening. mm Yummie.?

I gotta go.... Its a very sad day for me today as I am selling my Avon this morning and I miss it already. M

Cheers Stuart

Phil Davies · 28 August 2003, 14:18

Now I really am confused! The one thing that's immediately obvious to me in all this is that people are firm advocates of either 2 or 4-stroke. Thanks Alex for your Tohatsu recommendation. I rang the dealer this morning and the TLDi (92kgs) is £2,250 to change,which is quite expensive compared to Tohatsu standard 50 2-stroke which is only £950 to change and weighs just 75kgs, the lightest in this class by a mile. The Yamaha is £1,900 to change and the Honda about £2,500. One I hadn't considered until now is the Mariner/Mercury option, which is about £1,300 to change. Tohatsu and Mercury win on price then, Yamaha apparently on quality of engineering. Problem is compounded by fact that I shall undoubtedly upgrade entire boat/engine in 2-3 years anyway so not too concerned about long term reliability. I also happen to think the black Merc's look really neat! Why does it have to be this complicated?!

stuart hedges · 28 August 2003, 14:42

Wavehumper

That's a good one a Ribtec 4.5 owner telling other people they are Bonkers! Do you not like Ribtecs

What does this mean, they are great little boats and we have all sorts of makes so I don't judge by what make it is.

We owned a sea rider for 15 years and sold it about 10 years ago so I know the boats very well, your right they are great. We had a 50 Merc on ours and yes it went like a rocket, but if 4 strokes had been around we would have had one.

I just think tht the small ones are still quite quick and hold value, more reliable and cheaper to run, in my book they are all good points.

How about a Merc 4 stroke.

JCW · 28 August 2003, 16:18

Phil,
if you go for the Merc, go for the EFi. Much better than the carbed version in my opinion.

narked · 28 August 2003, 17:00

Selling the searider Stuart? How could you!

What's the 425hp diesel CAT for then? You got that in a boat yet, or is it for a project?

Matt

thewavehumper · 29 August 2003, 06:58

Stuart H20 ( The ribtec crack was just a bit of Banter mischief, really.

Narked its inside an Avon 8.4 metre Sea Rider, which is why the little one has to go. But I'll get another one one day.

thewavehumper · 29 August 2003, 09:01

It don't have to be complicated, upgrade the boat now!

Nearly all modern engines are good and have few reliability issues

All the manufactureres. I personally would buy the yammie 50 as it is a legendary engine, however Mariner/Mercury are great engines too. If you are getting rid of your boat in a few years the I'd go for the most cost effective option. If you were keeping it I'd stick to my guns about the Yammie.

batfalcon · 29 August 2003, 11:33

I agree with WAVEHUMPER on this. I owned 3 Yammies an one Merc so far. The reason I have the Merc now is simply a matter of price. When I was searching for a new motor for my new rib, there was a 1800 euros difference on the price between Yam & Merc. (5500 - 7300). Couldn't afford the Yam, so I went for the Merc.
I must admit though that Merc NEVER let me down all these years (since 1997) and the consumption is < 1 lt per mile.
Having had a Yammie 50 2 stroke (50 D TOL) on my previus rib I can tell you that the consumption was 0.5 lt / mile.

Phil Davies · 29 August 2003, 22:25

Specifically rang multi-franchise dealers today since they have less of an axe to grind than single or dual brand dealers. One of them told me 95% of all his sales this year have been 4-stroke and that I would definitely suffer on the depreciation front with a 2-stroke in the light of the 2006 emissions legislation. Valid point probably.

Of the 4-stroke options most dealers recommended the Suzuki 50 in preference to the Yamaha or Honda due to the EFi technology and for the same reason, the Merc/Mariner 50 EFi, although this engine at 112kgs is above the recommended maximum for my boat. Suzuki also seem to attract the biggest discounts off list price, in one case a whopping £1,000!

Either way the final decision will be made at the boat show after I've had a chance to see the new Evinrude Etec 50. Thanks for all your thoughts, it's very useful (and confusing!)to get such a variety of opinions. Whichever one I buy, it'll be a bloody sight quicker than my 30hp and that's the main point.

JCW · 30 August 2003, 08:47

Phil,
I really rate the Suzuki 4 stoke outboards, however in the 50 HP range the Suzuki spec is 107KG, 814CC 3 cylinder Efi and the Merc / Mariner 50HP is 112KG, 995cc and 4 Cylinders.
The 50HP uses the same block as the 60HP so I would expect a higher torque output from this motor over the Suzuki.

Phil Davies · 04 September 2003, 14:39

That's it, decision made: it's going to be an Evinrude E-tech 50hp direct injection 2-stroke. Final answer. Close run thing with the Suzuki 50 Efi which I tested on a 4.5m rib at the week-end and was utterly stunned with how quiet it was. Significantly quieter than my Honda 30 even and very, very smooth. The new E-techs have received amazing reviews in the US since their introduction in the summer, although won't be available in UK till December unfortunately. It's also lighter than the Suzi and has 3 instead of 2 years' warranty in its favour. Check out the styling on www.evinrude.com - it's gorgeous!

whitingiom · 04 September 2003, 16:21

Aren't all the two strokes Yamahas underneath it all?