50hp, long-shaft new or used?

spartacus · 27 September 2009, 08:59

I've been deliberating over this for some time. I want to change my boat from a Pro 7 to a Seaquest 4.8m commercial. Their spec'd engine of choice is a Suzuki DF50, however at £5,800 new to £5,000 (depending how you source it) - it isn't cheap. To keep my budget and marriage on track, would you opt for a second-hand engine, and if so - which one?

At this mid-power range there are lots to choose from, including Yamaha (which would be my preferred choice), Tohatsu, Honda, Suzuki and Evinrude. I'm not considering Mercury, which probably rules out Mariner.

Suzuki 50DF weighs a hefty 110kg, produces 815cc and retails for £5,800 new or £6,100 for the DF60. Ouch. Only second-hand examples I've seen to date are with boats.

The Tohatsu 50 TLDi comes with a 3 year warranty, uses 2-stroke technology, lightest of the group at 93.5kg and generates 697cc. New at just over £4k, but some nearly new examples on the second hand market at over £3k.

Honda 50 LRTU is one of the most expensive at £6k, weighs 98kg but comes with a 6 year warranty. Scare second-hand examples (varying conditions) for around £2-3k.

Yamaha F50 FETL, 5 year warranty, currently comes with a deal for a free choice of propeller, control box and gauges to suit your set-up, weighs a hefty 110kg. As far as I can see the 60hp weighs the same. Only second-hand examples I've seen are with boats, or a second-hand big-foot gearbox version for £3k. Would this be any use?

Evinrude E-tec. I don't have any details yet.

Any advice appreciated.

Downhilldai · 27 September 2009, 22:38

New:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/YAMAH...ssoriesQ5fGear

spartacus · 28 September 2009, 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downhilldai

New:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/YAMAH...ssoriesQ5fGear

Very nice engine. Works out about £3k, not sure if there is duty to pay at this end, no idea of delivery time (assuming it will be shipped and at what cost), and prop and controls are extra. Seems like a whole lot of trouble buying from abroad?

Nos4r2 · 28 September 2009, 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by spartacus

Very nice engine. Works out about £3k, not sure if there is duty to pay at this end, no idea of delivery time (assuming it will be shipped and at what cost), and prop and controls are extra. Seems like a whole lot of trouble buying from abroad?

Except you can't buy it new here at all...

gibbo500 · 28 September 2009, 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Except you can't buy it new here at all...

You can.....i think it is still available?

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/BLO152

Turbodiesel · 28 September 2009, 21:36

Just out of interest why not a Mercury?

codprawn · 28 September 2009, 22:01

We can ship it!!!

spartacus · 29 September 2009, 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbodiesel

Just out of interest why not a Mercury?

I deal with a Yamaha main dealer who service a lot of commercial RIBS and they simply doesn't rate them. I'm assuming they mean in terms of realiability, component quality, etc.

Downhilldai · 29 September 2009, 09:26

You'll probably find a lot of dealers will slag off other brands

spartacus · 29 September 2009, 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

We can ship it!!!

Out of interest - do you know how much it would be to ship it and the laws regarding VAT or duty at this end?

Thanks

9D280 · 29 September 2009, 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by spartacus

I deal with a Yamaha main dealer who service a lot of commercial RIBS and they simply doesn't rate them.

Strange that, considering the incestuous triangle... You won't be surprised to hear I was talking to a Merc dealer who didn't rate Suzis......

There will always be people who get dodgy engines - it's a statistical probability with a mass produced machine. Bottom line is (assuming you don't plan to self service) - is your delaer decent? That would account for a good chunk of the "which brand?" equation if it were me.

longjohn · 29 September 2009, 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9D280

Strange that, considering the incestuous triangle... You won't be surprised to hear I was talking to a Merc dealer who didn't rate Suzis......

There will always be people who get dodgy engines - it's a statistical probability with a mass produced machine. Bottom line is (assuming you don't plan to self service) - is your delaer decent? That would account for a good chunk of the "which brand?" equation if it were me.

From a general terrestrial engine point of view I would regard Honda and Yamaha as the best engine designers and manufacturers - not sure if that translates to marine as well?

Daniel · 29 September 2009, 16:21

spart'y, for what it's worth my personal preferance has always been NEW engine, USED boat.

This formaula has always seen me good. The theory is you can tinker with boats more than engines!!

I've had (in rough order) the following spanking new engines, and in truth, they have all been good bits of kit:

Marniner (Merc)
Yam
Merc
Tohatsu
Suzi

Daniel · 29 September 2009, 16:33

and which would be my favorite?

Well, for fun vs economy the merc optimax.
For value for money the tohatsu.
For reliablity the yamaha.
For noise (lack of it) the Suzuzi.
For a right bargin, the Mariner.

so there you go.

Turbodiesel · 29 September 2009, 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by spartacus

I deal with a Yamaha main dealer who service a lot of commercial RIBS and they simply doesn't rate them. I'm assuming they mean in terms of realiability, component quality, etc.

Yeah he is probably right, its only the entire MoD fleet of outboards, almost all the RNLI inshore lifeboats, Most of the Coast guard outboards etc etc that use them commercially! i guess if they were that bad they would be using Yams too!

spartacus · 29 September 2009, 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbodiesel

Yeah he is probably right, its only the entire MoD fleet of outboards, almost all the RNLI inshore lifeboats, Most of the Coast guard outboards etc etc that use them commercially! i guess if they were that bad they would be using Yams too!

I appreciate it's a contentious subject and that a degree of outboard engine choice is based on misinformation depending who, or where you ask. Probably the same reason people buy certain makes of car, irrespective of their reliability. Mercedes, BMW and Audi are prestigious brands, but nearly always score badly in JD Power surveys on customer satisfaction and reliability. Lexus, Mazda and Honda invariably take the top slots.

Off topic for a minute, the new Audi A5, a car packed with technology and only on the market since 2007 came joint last out of 175 cars (with a Ford Galaxy) tested in a recent Which? report on customer satisfaction. 77,000 people took part - so they can't all be telling porkies.

Part of my engine-choice decision will be based on the local dealer network for support and advice. I have a Yamaha/Evinrude main dealer close to me. I also service the engines myself, so have a general feel for the quality of the components and problems that I've encountered with them over the years.

Downhilldai · 29 September 2009, 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by spartacus

Part of my engine-choice decision will be based on the local dealer network for support and advice. I have a Yamaha/Evinrude main dealer close to me. I also service the engines myself, so have a general feel for the quality of the components and problems that I've encountered with them over the years.

Hang on a minute. You're dismissing Merc/Mariner on the advice of a local (Yam

) dealer, but you'll be servicing the engines yourself and claim to have a 'feel for the quality of the components'
Why not make your own decision on this, rather than being (mis)guided by someone with a clear bias towards a particular manufacturer?

spartacus · 29 September 2009, 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downhilldai

Hang on a minute. You're dismissing Merc/Mariner on the advice of a local (Yam

) dealer, but you'll be servicing the engines yourself and claim to have a 'feel for the quality of the components'
Why not make your own decision on this, rather than being (mis)guided by someone with a clear bias towards a particular manufacturer?

I'm open to pursuasion. It's been a number of years since I purchased an engine from new and all my experience is with 2-strokes. Sure I have a loyalty to Yamaha, but never say never. Didn't think I'd move from Zodiac until I heard about Ribquest.

markg · 29 September 2009, 23:51

get yourself a force, at least then you know you have a crap engine that is not pretending to be a good engine and you aint paid £7-8k for it

Downhilldai · 30 September 2009, 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by spartacus

i'm open to pursuasion. ...... Didn't think i'd move from zodiac until i heard about ribquest.

Clearly