90hp four stroke honda

[Chris]

[QUOTE=spartacus;454878]Did you speak to Tony Hole Marine regards the fuel filter? That kind of stuff is fairly basic, and the 'o' ring should have been replaced as a matter of course. [QUOTE]

Not yet... I only found this today when looking at the other issue related to the IAB valve.

The thing is now that I have had this experience I am wondering what else did they not do? I asked them to check the Cambelt and do all the other stuff that you would expect at a major service. At the moment I am thinking did they even bother?

Regardless of whether they did or did not do what I asked I feel it has been a complete waste of time and money getting it serviced.

Should have just done it myself in the first place.

[Boats&Outboards]

In fairness we've put quite a few jobs through THM (not just Honda's) and they have been fantastic. Cannot fault them. Tony, Dennis & the team are always helpful, upfront and polite!

Not the cheapest but then when you see their workloads you can see that everybody trusts them. Perhaps it was an oversight or honest mistake.

Have you used them before ? What were they like that time ?

[Chris]

They were very polite and Tony seemed like a very knowledgable chap on the phone and when I met him. However... when I am bobbing about in my drysuit after having to abandon a burning boat then I dont really know how thats going to make me feel any better..

Like I said if you want it done right then do it yourself.

[willk]

Every time I read about poor service work, I remember the early chapters in Robert M. Pirsig's "Zen & the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance". Condensed: Uninvested men with a head full of clutter don't give their all to the job in hand.

I know next to nothing about motors but I'm leaning toward "self-service"

[mick]

I think it helps if you have a bit of knowledge and try and get someone to come to your place so you can watch them do it.

[Leapy]

Originally Posted by discomick

I think it helps if you have a bit of knowledge and try and get someone to come to your place so you can watch them do it.

If they come to you and you make the tea - £x. If you watch - £x + 20%. If you assist and advise - £x + 50%

[mick]

That's it don't forget the bacon butts I have had my tintent services at home for years now £147 same chap is doing my boat trailer as well Pennine marine will do the outboards but I will do a lot myself things like gear oil , plugs etc

[clydeoutboards]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Dave, whilst I think you are trying to help, you are coming across as a little belligerent. Not sure if there is a pact amongst Honda dealers that stops you saying; I think you need abc every how many hours, and it will cost you xyz ;-)

I just had a quick look at a random honda90 manual online and there are services advised every 100, 200 and 400 hrs. It looks like there are no parts changes (unless necessary) at 200 hrs, only oil change (not filters though?) and even at 400 hrs that manual implies a mechanically competent owner can do the service themselves, with the right tools and parts.

If that's right and you either save adi thousands (or help him discover he is still warranted DIY-ing) and/or that Honda full services are 4x less frequent than some other brands etc, I'd have thought you would have done a great service to Honda and improved your reputation on rib.net (and amongst adi's fisherfolk contacts) but simply repeating that he is wrong and to call you to sell the engines is getting dull.

Not sure how we can help when he refuses to call and then asks for something he does not need and has no intention of buying as he just had it done.

Sorry if that is belligerent or offence but I can not make him call and I can not help him if he doesn't.

I am not saying i am right here but we dont have any customers who refuse point blank to speak to us.

Dave

[mick]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Dave, whilst I think you are trying to help, you are coming across as a little belligerent. Not sure if there is a pact amongst Honda dealers that stops you saying; I think you need abc every how many hours, and it will cost you xyz ;-)

I just had a quick look at a random honda90 manual online and there are services advised every 100, 200 and 400 hrs. It looks like there are no parts changes (unless necessary) at 200 hrs, only oil change (not filters though?) and even at 400 hrs that manual implies a mechanically competent owner can do the service themselves, with the right tools and parts.

If that's right and you either save adi thousands (or help him discover he is still warranted DIY-ing) and/or that Honda full services are 4x less frequent than some other brands etc, I'd have thought you would have done a great service to Honda and improved your reputation on rib.net (and amongst adi's fisherfolk contacts) but simply repeating that he is wrong and to call you to sell the engines is getting dull.

I agree this thread is getting boring we need some stickies up for engine servicing so we can what gets done at how many hours if that makes sense.

[Divertris]

End of the day Honda make outstanding outboards. If servicing costs are high at your local dealer take it to an independent marine dealer or someone local who knows their way round an engine.

I personally service all my own engines cars & boats with a manual you can't go far wrong. But I don't have the problem o having to go to a dealer to keep a guarantee valid etc. I wouldn't even if i had the £ to buy new as they are so reliable I doubt you even need the warranty anyway!

[alystra]

Having bought a 90 Honda eighteen months ago I have followed this thread with interest. Just had the 100 hour service done. This cost around £235, on site at my place. The service included tappet adjustment so took quite a while. For the hours spent, together with travelling, I think that was a fair price. Mind you, there were no parts needed, other than filters.

So, £2.30 an hour extra running costs to cover that. As a pensioner, I don't like paying skilled people to do things that I can quite easily do myself, so I'm not sure how long I shall be able to keep my warranty going - especially at the eye watering rates mentioned here.

I serviced my Mercury 90 4 str with no problem, but I had a service manual and used the excellent on line parts catalogue. So far I have not been able to find a service manual for the Honda. I get the feeling that Honda like to keep things secret.

Is there a service manual available for the Honda? (at a reasonable price). Is there an on line parts catalogue?

I am very pleased with my engine. It's quiet and more responsive than the old carbed Mercury. It's lighter too, which upset the balance of the boat a bit until I re-stowed stuff. Now with the right propellor, it's great.

I just hope I can maintain it.

[willk]

IMO, a warranty (other than the statutory minimum) is a form of Insurance Policy - the seller will have weighed the risk to themselves with Actuarial preciseness and is having a bet with you, generally at your expense. If you have to have your maintenance done with their stealerships then it's more of a Marketing/Sales Scheme.

Either way, they reckon on more pounds in their pocket than yours.

[clydeoutboards]

Originally Posted by discomick

I agree this thread is getting boring we need some stickies up for engine servicing so we can what gets done at how many hours if that makes sense.

This is a great idea for all parties as it would stop this type of thread and and would mean that the information would at least be accurate and reflective of the pleasure users on here.

The only problem with doing this for all the manufactures is the number of makes with all the models and hours.

So....... maybe a starting point would be 5 years pleasure use only. Though this is still a lot of work if we can get information on all the main manufactures I am happy to help where I can and provide this for Honda or Tohatsu.

FYI

we publish STANDARD servicing cost on our website ( and what is included) i.e. for engines not under warranty Servicing | Glasgow and Clyde Outboard Services Outboard Engine Servicing.

Dave

[Poly]

Originally Posted by willk

IMO, a warranty (other than the statutory minimum) is a form of Insurance Policy - the seller will have weighed the risk to themselves with Actuarial preciseness and is having a bet with you, generally at your expense..

Willk - I think that is very true, and certainly with an "established product" I'd consider taking the gamble after maybe the first year (when most catastrophic defects are likely to emerge). I might be a little less confident with any major new design/new technology. As with all insurance if you can afford to take the hit on the risk materialising then you are probably better to keep your cash, but if you would struggle to find several £k for a replacement engine then spending a little bit (extra for stdealer servicing) each year might be sensible.

Of course there are other reasons for building a relationship with a local marine engineer. Like possibly negotiating a good deal on future engines and trade ins, having a trusted expert when there is something more complex than a service (and who won't point the finger at 'your tinkering'), and having a relationship with someone who might go out their way to get that part you need in time for the big trip/job you have planned. Of course in the internet age that works both ways - if you want me to buy an engine from you and not someone else then make sure you don't shaft me so I might be willing to spend a few more £.

Originally Posted by alystra

So, £2.30 an hour extra running costs to cover that. As a pensioner, I don't like paying skilled people to do things that I can quite easily do myself, so I'm not sure how long I shall be able to keep my warranty going - especially at the eye watering rates mentioned here.

The honda manual I picked at random said some tasks should be performed by a honda dealer UNLESS the owner had sufficient mechanical knowledge and tools to do it themselves, in line with the Service Manual. This was a footnote to service schedule. I'd assume that Honda would sell you copy? Perhaps dave can confirm if that is possible (especially if he is not the dealer losing your servicing business!)?

It looks like there are some on ebay although not sure if they cover your specific engine.

Originally Posted by clydeoutboards

Not sure how we can help when he refuses to call and then asks for something he does not need and has no intention of buying as he just had it done.

Dave, the number of times you've posted on this thread you could have clearly stated what you thought he did need and how often. You can leave the pricing discussion to on the phone, but I can see why if his reading of the manual says one thing; and his local dealer is saying the same and you just keep saying he is wrong (but not why) that you are going to do a deal on the pennies rather than save him thousands. What is there that Honda don't want you to say in an open forum?

Don't get me wrong, I think ADI is being a bit silly if he doesn't pick up the phone and call you to see if there is a way to save money, but I'm not sure your approach on here would endear me to call. But then anyone who buys an engine for commercial use without understanding the service intervals and warranty obligations and then complains about it afterwards has nobody else to blame. The fact that Honda's are so popular with west coast fishermen (who aren't exactly known for their extravagance) suggests that the total cost of ownership must be competitive.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Boats&Outboards

In fairness we've put quite a few jobs through THM (not just Honda's) and they have been fantastic. Cannot fault them. Tony, Dennis & the team are always helpful, upfront and polite!

Not the cheapest but then when you see their workloads you can see that everybody trusts them. Perhaps it was an oversight or honest mistake.

Have you used them before ? What were they like that time ?

Just to add a final full stop to this. I had a response to my email yesterday and as expected they deny any mistakes being made (apart from the O-Ring) and claim that the dealer who suggested I check the intake air valve (that I found to be frozen closed) was "to be treated with caution" as they (THM) had not heard of this problem before.

My advice to anyone who wants an engine serviced in the South is to call John at C-Power in Southampton.

He knows his stuff with these bigger more complex engines and will be servicing my engine going forwards.

[Erin]

Just for anyone interested, Honda are prepared to sell a service manual to the end user, though it does have to be purchased via a dealer. This was certainly the case a few years ago when I had a Honda 50. The dealer was reluctant to help me for obvious reasons, but they did eventually get me the manual. If you don't live anywhere near a dealer and talk very nicely to their head office they may just send you a PDF. They did this for my fathers tractor mower a couple of years ago.

[ADI]

Hello Clyde outboards,

I decided to pick up the phone like you suggested but to another Honda dealer. They confirmed the contents of the Honda 90 efi service kit includes:

•4 x Spark plugs 9807B-5617C
•1 x Split pin 90758-ZW1-B00
•1 x Oil filter 15400-RBA-F01
•1 x Fuel filter 16910-ZY9-004
•1 x Fuel filter 16911-ZY3-010
•2 x Thermostat cover packing / o'ring 19317-ZW9-000
•1 x Impeller kit 06192-ZW1-000
£189.99 excluding oils and anodes.

Their labour price for the service was as near as damm it the same as yours. I said thank you very much for the information and finished the conversation.

The point I'm making is that the price for a 200 hour service for a Honda 90 EFI engine is the same at all Honda dealers and I'm not wrong in so many ways like you suggest.

Polwart was right, I would not call you because the way your company has handled this post would not give me confindence to call

You started off by saying Honda's are "easy and cheap to service ". They might be easy to service but I'm not an expert but I do not think they are cheap to service.

Are you in denial about the service cost's Dave because other Honda dealers are not

Adi

PS: If I service them myself will the Honda warranty still be valid ?