Advice Please

Jono Garton · 14 January 2009, 18:48

I personally advertised an engine on RIB.net (http://rib.net/forum/showthread.php?t=26230) for a customer who I had previously sold the engine to on the back of a rib. The advert says it all.

A nice chap who is a Master Mariner Engineer in the Marine Trade phoned regarding the engine, Ed from Olmec had seen the advert and put him on to me. He asked very few questions, didn't want to see it, paid for it by transfer and sent a courier to pick it up from my house. I made £150 on the transaction to cover my time.

A few months later I get a phone call to say the prop shaft is a few thou out and its thrown a con rod out the side of the crank case. The chap sounds very reasonable and honest, but then again I know the engine was 100% fine and running when it left on the courier. If the chap didn't sound so honest I would think the prop had been in contact with the hard stuff.

As it was a brokerage sale and the customer chose not to view or survey the engine, legally I don't have to do anything.

But what should I do?

Rock: Jono :Hard Place

Poly · 14 January 2009, 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono Garton

As it was a brokerage sale and the customer chose not to view or survey the engine, legally I don't have to do anything.

You've answered your own question. Anyone buying a second hand engine without inspection or guarantee does so at their own risk. You also have no way of knowing what he (or someone else) has done in the meantime. Only real reason for trying to help is if you think there is goodwill to be gained for some future sale.

Leapy · 14 January 2009, 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono Garton

the prop shaft is a few thou out and its thrown a con rod out the side of the crank case

Which is the cart and which is the horse? After throwing a rod I'm surprised any part of the drivetrain is only "a few thou out"

codprawn · 14 January 2009, 19:37

Horrible situation to be in. Did it go bang straight away or after a few hours?

In fairness an engine can self destruct at any time - even brand new ones can do it!!!

Jono Garton · 14 January 2009, 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

Did it go bang straight away or after a few hours?

Apparently after he changed the plugs.

Jono

JSP · 14 January 2009, 19:53

I think you should only have to do something if it was sold un safe and you as a company had done work that could have resulted in this happening.
Sounds like the answer to the above would be a NO so I'd say you don't need to do anything. A goodwill gesture on your part could help if you felt inclined to do it. But only you could decide that Jono.
The very fact that your thinking about it shows your worth your salt

codprawn · 14 January 2009, 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono Garton

Apparently after he changed the plugs.

Jono

Too long a plug or dropped something down the hole maybe? Or just sheer bad luck!!!

Dirk Diggler · 14 January 2009, 20:16

Difficult situation to be in, now legal action is available to the great unwashed, anyone can cause you grief for about £50.00, and the law is so fecked up common sense no longer comes into it, so quite often the courts rule in favour of the numpty making the claim.

I'd dig me heels in and stick by the "buyer beware" adage, but that's easy for me to say coz it ain't my problem!

markb · 14 January 2009, 20:44

Jono
you say you got a call several months later surely after this time there would be no come back to you particularly if it was as stated brokerage. I take the warranty has expired.
If you tried to take a second hand car back to a dealer after that time with the warranty expired they would probably just laugh at you

Nos4r2 · 14 January 2009, 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono Garton

I personally advertised an engine on RIB.net (http://rib.net/forum/showthread.php?t=26230) for a customer who I had previously sold the engine to on the back of a rib. The advert says it all.

A nice chap who is a Master Mariner Engineer in the Marine Trade phoned regarding the engine, Ed from Olmec had seen the advert and put him on to me. He asked very few questions, didn't want to see it, paid for it by transfer and sent a courier to pick it up from my house. I made £150 on the transaction to cover my time.

A few months later I get a phone call to say the prop shaft is a few thou out and its thrown a con rod out the side of the crank case. The chap sounds very reasonable and honest, but then again I know the engine was 100% fine and running when it left on the courier. If the chap didn't sound so honest I would think the prop had been in contact with the hard stuff.

As it was a brokerage sale and the customer chose not to view or survey the engine, legally I don't have to do anything.

But what should I do?

Rock: Jono :Hard Place

The advert is clear it's brokerage so no warranty. Doubt he'd get anywhere with a claim. However, if you were feeling helpful I have a PM waiting for you if you enable them.

PeterR · 14 January 2009, 21:03

Hello Jono,Sorry to see you in a spot.Would there be no recourse the present owner can go through the manufacturer as surely its not yet three years old and under warenty or are they only two yrs

Downhilldai · 15 January 2009, 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by markb

... I take the warranty has expired.

2006 Opti should still be under warranty (3 years), provided the terms have been adhered to.

ribraff · 16 January 2009, 18:07

mmm, very interesting.

ribraff · 16 January 2009, 18:56

Good point Peter... however the engine was registered commercially to an Ian Sharlot (PPT) so the warranty is shortened.
Let me also point out at this point that the problem was found during installation.
Codprawn... the guy is a very experienced Mariner engineer, he would not put the wrong plugs in.
This is a pretty horrible situation as i put him on to you Jono thinking that the engine would be in good order and there would not be any problems, having plugged it into the DDT we can see that this is clearly not the case. This deal was done on trust, i don't think that there are many people who would go and view a second hand outboard before buying it if it was several hundred miles away so whilst a legal challenge may prove difficult this has left Jamie with a very bitter taste in his mouth.

Poly · 16 January 2009, 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by ribraff

i don't think that there are many people who would go and view a second hand outboard before buying it if it was several hundred miles away so whilst a legal challenge may prove difficult this has left Jamie with a very bitter taste in his mouth.

Really? I don't think that many people would buy a £3.5k second hand outboard without either seeing it running or some sort of warranty/guarantee - the later is clearly not the case when it is sold on brokerage. I don't know Jono and have never met him, so he probably is an honerable guy - but in general yacht brokers are just like estate agents and trust is not normally a good idea!

PeterR · 16 January 2009, 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by ribraff

Good point Peter... however the engine was registered commercially to an Ian Sharlot (PPT) so the warranty is shortened.
Let me also point out at this point that the problem was found during installation.
Codprawn... the guy is a very experienced Mariner engineer, he would not put the wrong plugs in.
This is a pretty horrible situation as i put him on to you Jono thinking that the engine would be in good order and there would not be any problems, having plugged it into the DDT we can see that this is clearly not the case. This deal was done on trust, i don't think that there are many people who would go and view a second hand outboard before buying it if it was several hundred miles away so whilst a legal challenge may prove difficult this has left Jamie with a very bitter taste in his mouth.

If i understand right you said it was found during instalation i.e before the boat had any use.If thats the case and the buyer didnt get to use it i dont know what the legal situation would be but in a court it would be whats reasonable .Which would be the sellar must give him his money back.I dont feel he can hide behind the dealer and the dealer cant hind behind the seller.I feel for Jono.I have sold through my local shop for me the benifits are being able to ask top money as a potential buyer has some reasurence as to the shops part in the deal.I did think perhaps i shouldnt say what i have as its probably not what you were hopeing to hear .On the other hand it is only my opion and may not be right.Jono always came right for me for which i really admire him

Bigmuz7 · 16 January 2009, 21:14

You need to find a middle ground area to protect your reputation, where exactly that is, depends on your principles and what you want your trading relationship to stand for.

You said you liked the guy .. so lose a little money if you think this would be a benefit to more custom. If he's a knob end.. stick to your guns, as has been pointed out .. shit happens. Just make sure your punter knows that you really are going well out of the way to help him though if you go down that route, or maybe make some contribution , on the very firm and clear understanding that to the best of your knowledge the engine history was good ,.. and you sold it on, in good faith

Ian Sharlot · 16 January 2009, 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by ribraff

Good point Peter... however the engine was registered commercially to an Ian Sharlot (PPT) so the warranty is shortened.
Let me also point out at this point that the problem was found during installation.
Codprawn... the guy is a very experienced Mariner engineer, he would not put the wrong plugs in.
This is a pretty horrible situation as i put him on to you Jono thinking that the engine would be in good order and there would not be any problems, having plugged it into the DDT we can see that this is clearly not the case. This deal was done on trust, i don't think that there are many people who would go and view a second hand outboard before buying it if it was several hundred miles away so whilst a legal challenge may prove difficult this has left Jamie with a very bitter taste in his mouth.

Ribraff, This is not the case. This engine was registered and used by Sidmouth Lifeboat, It was purchased by Professional boat sales (of which I was a Director) in March 08. Professional boat sales later sold the engine on a boat. The engine should not be registered to me as we only purchased the engine as a dealer from Sidmouth and the purchase was done through E P Barrus.

I am sorry to hear about the problems ribraff.

Nos4r2 · 17 January 2009, 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

Really? I don't think that many people would buy a £3.5k second hand outboard without either seeing it running or some sort of warranty/guarantee - the later is clearly not the case when it is sold on brokerage.

Seconded-I've driven 200 miles each way to collect engines before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

I don't know Jono and have never met him, so he probably is an honerable guy - but in general yacht brokers are just like estate agents and trust is not normally a good idea!

I'm not sure that's really a fair comment-but the comparison is good in that both an estate agent and a broker know nothing much about the product apart from what's obvious from a quick look and what the seller has said.

JSP · 17 January 2009, 02:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Seconded-I've driven 200 miles each way to collect engines before.

Same here!

Quote:

I'm not sure that's really a fair comment-but the comparison is good in that both an estate agent and a broker know nothing much about the product apart from what's obvious from a quick look and what the seller has said.

If, on the Friday and everything clears, you go to your new house and open the door and the whole lot falls down. Leaving you with only a door nob then it would be the surveyor you would go back too as the estate agent would try and show you another property.
And on that maybe a independent qualified person should have been sort to go over the engine before the paying for it. But that would be an expense that I can imagine was not an option.
Again I think it would only stand up in court if it was sold in a dangerous state.

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P.S. if non of that makes sense, it's half 2 in the morning, I've got a 2 yearold who thinks it's play time and a 3 month old who's doing a scene out of the exorcist!