Another Evinrude 150DI Disaster.

[chris123]

Originally Posted by Seaharrier

Nope, mine is E-Tec.

We discussed the warning / detection issue with the mechanic back than and it appears it's hard to electronically detect a spark-plug who is not working. Don't ask me why.

Even if it was possible to install electronics who can detect it, is it worth installing this knowing that a spark-plug that stops working is very exceptional. What I mean is, they need to install some detection system to monitor the most common problems. If they start installing detection systems for every engine component, the engine would be full of sensors which increases the risk of electronic problems, false alarms…

rgs

Shouldn't be that hard - most modern cars (afaik) use a pickup on the crankshaft to detect misfires - my OH's Fiesta does. A faulty spark plug may be a very low risk, but a faulty coil pack (or other ignition component) would have the same symptoms and failure mode.

[waverunner]

Originally Posted by Hightower

Don't be like that Brad

That's why I have the most unreliable outboard sitting on the back of my new RIB

Hightower,

Rumour has it you are looking for a name for your new boat!!!!

How about "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang"

[Hightower]

Originally Posted by waverunner

Hightower,

Rumour has it you are looking for a name for your new boat!!!!

How about "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang"

Well, if the engine installation gets completed by the weekend, which I seriusly doubt after talking with Power Tech today

I was thinking of taking my vipermax into Portmouth Harbour and have some fireworks onboard

[bernithebiker]

Originally Posted by Biggles

Anyone know how long it would take the water in a cylinder to cause the problems seaharrier had ?

Once water gets in the cylinder it's game over very quickly. The piston cannot compress water, and you would get a bent conrod before you could say 'How much is this going to cost?!'

Besides, for water to get in, it means you have already had a critical failure somewhere on the engine, like head gasket gone, or, in this case, the block has fractured. So the water getting in is pretty much a secondary effect to the main breakdown.

Clearly, the likes of Yam, Honda and Suzuki are using their years of motorbike engine experience to build outboards. I am pretty certain (but please prove me wrong if you know better!) that the Yam 60hp 1000cc is a derivative of the R1 motorbike engine. In the bike form, it revs to 14 000rpm and makes over 150hp. If it can survive that sort of stress over the long term (and it can - this bike has been around for many years), then I'm pretty confident that it can hold 60hp at 5500rpm 24 hours a day if need be. Surely noone else has this kind of experience in small to mid size engines. Perhaps where the Jap problems have arisen is when they make larger 2000cc+ boat engines, an area in which they have a bit less experience.....?

I had a Polaris 600cc quad - American. The engine blew up after 1.5 years, (poor valve seating). I now have a Honda 680 quad. Enough said.

[ian parkes]

Bernie
Yam advertise that their marine engines are specifacally made for that purpose exept the jetski's and jet boats which do use a marinised R1 engine .

perhaps they use the same block for the 60 outboard but that is all , there would be no point in a 16valve twincam for a 60hp outboard that needs torque not HP.
Iether way i agree I reckon they are the best engineers in their field , its a great shame they stopped developing the 2 stroke as they would have probably beaten the opposition by a mile.
All the japs are very good but the others do seem to just adapt car engines.
Honda surprise me the most , they are up there with yam in motorbikes and near the top in cars but seem to have left some of thier outboards undeveloped for years .

[bernithebiker]

Ian, you're right, the 60hp is indeed 2 valves per cylinder - in fact you can see a video of it here;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PD0A6tZMLI

So clearly it's not the same head setup as on the R1, but I would strongly suspect it's the same block, the Evinrude part that failed in this thread.

I also have the new Yamaha F100 on my new boat. (Old boat for sale!) It is 1600cc, also EFI, and this one IS 16 valve.

It is indeed a shame that Honda haven't pushed ahead with outboards - I am a Honda man through and through - I have mowers, chippers, quads, motorbikes, cars, all Honda, all totally reliable. I would have got a Honda outboard, but a) our local dealer doesn't sell them, and b) Yamaha is technically superior.

[ian parkes]

I agree Bernie yam do seem to put more into their marine side and are Technically superior in that field .

But talking of cracked blocks this is a true story and i own a yamaha with that lovely R1 engine so no axe to grind .

My mate had an R1 rode it very hard . one day he complained the front was sliding so wee looked for problems . The block was cracked right down the front and was throwing collant onto the front tyre , new engine was the cure . It had done 30k . Damage i believe was down to it being crashed more than once , but he believed it was just a dodgy block . He was a very knowlegable mechanic so who was I to argue .

[bernithebiker]

Originally Posted by ian parkes

I agree Bernie yam do seem to put more into their marine side and are Technically superior in that field .

But talking of cracked blocks this is a true story and i own a yamaha with that lovely R1 engine so no axe to grind .

My mate had an R1 rode it very hard . one day he complained the front was sliding so wee looked for problems . The block was cracked right down the front and was throwing collant onto the front tyre , new engine was the cure . It had done 30k . Damage i believe was down to it being crashed more than once , but he believed it was just a dodgy block . He was a very knowlegable mechanic so who was I to argue .

Interesting story! 30k is quite a bit for a bike, especially if it's been thrown down the road a few times...! Nice bike though.

I recently sold my Ducati 999 as it was so unreliable it was frightening! £££!! Had a Honda VTR 1000 Firestorm before that, never missed a beat.

[ian parkes]

30k was probably a lot for the way he used to ride the R1 with killshifter and loads of trackdays and offs , but another guy i know had 80k on his fazer thou with no problems at all , doesn't even use oil yet .

[Daveboy 71]

Dealer at the London boatshow told me the F100 was from Ford and converted to marine use by Yamaha. Not sure how true this is but many of the 4-S outboards used currently are either shared blocks and/or converted from car units. Johnson outboards are re-badged Suzuki 4-strokes 7;lastest Honda 90 is from the Jazz.

[ian parkes]

Originally Posted by Daveboy 71

Dealer at the London boatshow told me the F100 was from Ford and converted to marine use by Yamaha. Not sure how true this is but many of the 4-S outboards used currently are either shared blocks and/or converted from car units. Johnson outboards are re-badged Suzuki 4-strokes 7;lastest Honda 90 is from the Jazz.

And selva is yamaha and mercury tohatsu etc etc , the list is never ending , but I would find it hard to believe that yamaha would need to use a ford engine ,

that would be like the japs or germans employing land rover to make a decent diesel engine or gearbox

[Searider]

Originally Posted by ian parkes

, but I would find it hard to believe that yamaha would need to use a ford engine ,

Yamaha have developed several engines for Ford - the 1.7 in the Puma for example - so there is some sort of tie up there somewhere.

[ian parkes]

Originally Posted by Searider

Yamaha have developed several engines for Ford - the 1.7 in the Puma for example - so there is some sort of tie up there somewhere.

that sounds more like it i actually wrote that it was more likely Yam made an engine for Ford then deleted it as i was speculating .

[codprawn]

I suspect there may have been some Ford involvement with the new 350 V8 outboard - 5.3L V8 and that much weight it just has to be Yank!!!

Not the first time Ford/Yam have made a V8 either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Yamaha_V8_engine

[Hightower]

Was watching the engineers trying to bleed the air out the oil system today, took 2 hours. Had to remove the oil pump and prime up to there, then the time consuming injector hoses....Took forever! After crimping the return hose and revving the engine, they managed to get loads of smoke out the back.

They've put the outboard back to Run-in mode just to make sure plenty of oil gets though.

Glad I confirmed the warantee with BRP today

If it goes bang, do I get a new ETec?

[Jono Garton]

< Edit: Attachment removed. JK >

[Chris]

I have always been taught not to trash the competition when selling. Jono, you may not like Evinrudes but nailing peoples choice of engine like Andy Hightowers in every post is getting a little boring, and I gaurantee it won't sell any more boats for you.

Chris

[Jono Garton]

Originally Posted by Chris

I have always been taught not to trash the competition when selling.

Well you've been taught well then , I don't think I have been "nailing peoples choice of engines in every thread" just having some harmless banter over some unwise decisions . We sell Etecs and I'm not slagging off any competition, I was just stating the "FACT" that di's are not a wise engine choice ask BRP or any Evinrude dealer and they will tell you that DI were not in production very long for a very good reason.

When buying I have been taught not to penny pinch and buy from who ever offers the best advice from experience, knowledge and passion for the product. It a shame not all people haven't been taught this and just like saving a few quid; and go to the man with the tool shed; who likes to "play" with boats; who's never hung an engine in his life! (Chris; I'm not having a dig at you)

Now if we cant have harmless banter we may as-well go and watch Heartbeat or Corry

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Jono Garton

We sell Etecs and I'm not slagging off any competition

So why the doctored picture of Etecs above

Originally Posted by Jono Garton

When buying I have been taught not to penny pinch and buy from who ever offers the best advice from experience, knowledge and passion for the product. It a shame not all people haven't been taught this and just like saving a few quid; and go to the man with the tool shed; who likes to "play" with boats; who's never hung an engine in his life! (Chris; I'm not having a dig at you)

Having just gone through problems caused by bad rigging I can say one thing for sure, tool shed or very nice dealer showroom just outside of exeter it makes very little difference. In fact one thing that has become very apparent to me is appearence means very little in this business.

[Jono Garton]

Originally Posted by Chris

So why the doctored picture of Etecs above

Harmless Banter

Originally Posted by Chris

Having just gone through problems caused by bad rigging I can say one thing for sure, tool shed or very nice dealer showroom just outside of exeter it makes very little difference. In fact one thing that has become very apparent to me is appearence means very little in this business.

Totally agree, but experience, passion, professionalism is everything. You wont find a fancy showroom with us, why sell a boat from a show room when I have the hole of cardigan bay. We have hole load of companies selling boats 300 yards from us with fancy show rooms who haven't sold a boat for months. We've got a basic office and classroom by the water and sold 6 boats in the last week.

Why did you go for an ETec not a DI?

Jono