British Seagull Kingfisher engine - noobs need help

[Katie.harker]

So, my partner and I are new to SIBs and other boating, other than school sailing and canoes trips. Back story post here: http://www.rib.net/forum/f50/new-sib...and-75288.html

So, we bought this engine and have now been told its the worst choice for a small SIB, as its going to be slow.
We are having issues with being able to start it, OH thinks this is mostly due to us being noobs and the engine not having been run for awhile.

However, after being told this was a standard shaft, I have found what I believe to be the serial code and the internet suggests that it's a long shaft. Our SIB is supposed to use short shafts (BS only seemed to do standard or long, so I thought standard would be OK).
Other than not being suitable for shallow water, is there any other reason not to use a long shaft? Or should we try to get our money back?

[warder54]

Hi, I made this mistake years ago. Had a silver century on my Waveline 2.9. These outboards are very sensitive to exhaust back pressure, if too deep in the water they will run very poorly or not at all. I used a hose clip round a shaft above the transom bracket to raise it. Ran like a dream after finding the right height. However - after coming into a harbour mouth with a fast following sea and only missing the harbour wall by sheer luck I sold it and got a Yam 5 and never looked back. The problem was not enough power to maintain steerage in those conditions.

[breezeblock]

fresh petrol and a fresh plug for a kick off then check if its sparking if its got all of the above then check for petrol a little drop of neat into the carb if it runs on that then the carbs got crap in it/choked jets

[paintman]

^^^^This.
If you don't want to try the petrol into the carb intake(works well) get a tin of Easystart & follow the instructions on the can. Bradex Easy Start 300ml

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by Katie.harker

So, my partner and I are new to SIBs and other boating, other than school sailing and canoes trips. Back story post here: http://www.rib.net/forum/f50/new-sib...and-75288.html

So, we bought this engine and have now been told its the worst choice for a small SIB, as its going to be slow.
We are having issues with being able to start it, OH thinks this is mostly due to us being noobs and the engine not having been run for awhile.

However, after being told this was a standard shaft, I have found what I believe to be the serial code and the internet suggests that it's a long shaft. Our SIB is supposed to use short shafts (BS only seemed to do standard or long, so I thought standard would be OK).
Other than not being suitable for shallow water, is there any other reason not to use a long shaft? Or should we try to get our money back?

Stick it on the wall...Take it back... Sell it on...or Use it for an Anchor!
Get a Modern engine that won't (or I should say..is a lot less likely too!)cause you problems
They were "ok" I thier day but that has surly passed...IMO of course..
The Sea (especially) is not the place to trial quirky redundant "tech" for practical purposes

[willk]

^^^

And if anyone on here argues with Maxi's analysis - try selling the Seagull to them for £175

[Katie.harker]

What do you think of Honda 5hp outboard | eBay as an optio?

We have messaged the seller about it being a long shaft, so hopefully he will agree to refund.

[beamishken]

The best engine for a sib in my opinion is a 2 stroke that Honda looks like a long shaft but will also be heavy for its output.A 4 or 5 hp yamaha would be ideal
Very light and ultra reliable and no worries about laying it on the right side or oil leaking into your car boot

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Katie.harker

What do you think of Honda 5hp outboard | eBay as an optio?



We have messaged the seller about it being a long shaft, so hopefully he will agree to refund.

Looks tatty to me

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by beamishken

The best engine for a sib in my opinion is a 2 stroke that Honda looks like a long shaft but will also be heavy for its output.A 4 or 5 hp yamaha would be ideal
Very light and ultra reliable and no worries about laying it on the right side or oil leaking into your car boot

^^^^^^^^^wot he said[emoji106]

[Fenlander]

Oh well you know now... for modern SIB boating Seagulls are useless. Often hard to start, smelly, oily, slow, noisy, polluting. I wondered if it might be a longshaft as the Kingfisher is their larger model for something like a 20ft sailing boat.

Didn't want to say it last night but best thing you can do is return if possible or sell on even at a loss (sadly you paid £100-150 too much) then start again with a Japanese motor (2 or 4 stroke) that you have run past the collective wisdom here first.

Something like I linked to initially (now sold) would be chalk and cheese after that Seagull...

Mercury 4hp four stroke outboard boat engine | eBay

[Fenlander]

As a matter of interest here is our "river" engine. A very commonly seen Mariner 4hp 2-stroke. Only half the oil in the mix compared to a Seagull so less smoke, less pollution. Quieter and more economical too. They are quite basic to maintain and usually very reliable. First or second time start after months unused.

Plenty about like it for £300-£400 and they'll go on years.

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by Fenlander

As a matter of interest here is our "river" engine. A very commonly seen Mariner 4hp 2-stroke. Only half the oil in the mix compared to a Seagull so less smoke, less pollution. Quieter and more economical too. They are quite basic to maintain and usually very reliable. First or second time start after months unused.

Plenty about like it for £300-£400 and they'll go on years.

The mariner and yam 4 and 5 are the same engine
Some are 100:1oil which is ten times less oil than some of the seagulls which were 10:1 oil

[paintman]

I run a Suzuki DT4 which I've had for years as a back-up & for trolling on my current boat. Previously it was on a 14' GRP hull & was fine for consumption & IIRC pushed it along well. Similar sized engine are used by many large trout fisheries on their hire boats.

Can I suggest you have a look on youtube for boats fitted with any engine you are considering & see what other people's experience is.
This is a random selection showing a DT4 on an inflatable (you might want to turn the volume off!):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKxZC_Eh9K0

[Fenlander]

Here's an example of something that would likely be 10x better than that Seagull and as he's asking for offers probably come for the same price...

yamaha 4hp 2 stroke outboard motor short shaft | eBay

OK it's not near you but just an example... having said that I've often travelled 100+mls for boats/engines.

[Katie.harker]

I messaged that Honda, and they said it was short.
Its odd, the ones I think are going to be short are long and the ones I thought we long, were short.

We are limited to where we can drive to, we really don't want to drive all over the country for one. That one you linked would have been too far.

What about:
SUZUKI DF 5 HP Four Stroke Outboard Boat Motor Engine SHORT Shaft

Mariner 4hp 2-stroke Outboard Boat Engine | eBay

You do realise I am going to ask for opinnions on every one I find now.

[Fenlander]

Suzuki great but quite likely to bid over budget.

Mariner... personally I'd rather buy from an owner who can tell me the history not a guy who has done one up like this one (probably bought as a non-runner) with a view to making a profit.

Yep do ask about every one as there is huge experience on here of virtually every engine you'll see.

[Fenlander]

Wouldn't touch that Honda. Too tatty as others have said and why when selling an outboard would you say ran fine but not started for a year. If confident it was OK you'd put some fuel in, stick it in a bucket and be able to say starts and runs fine.

If for nothing else to be confident you weren't selling a non-runner.

[beamishken]

Look for 2 strokes any 4 stroke you find on a budget will be tatty
the mariner isn't a bad price but I'd be wary of a part time dealer
It's also a Mercury built engine too. The yam version which is the one to go for
The one fenlander posted in post12

[Poly]

Seagulls have a weird cult following, so you should find someone to sell it on to - unfortunately they know the value of them pretty well so unlikely to make a profit. It will be worth more if you can show it running though so get it working in a barrel with the water at the right depth - I'd never buy a motor from an unknown source without seeing it running.

I wouldn't put a seagull on any boat, even a classic sailing boat where they look ok, because you want to be able to use a motor with confidence and they were never that reliable at starting when new never mind with decades of aging, and modern users who aren't used to the quirks of old engines like points and chokes and carbs...