Commercial Use - Real world meaning

[Fenlander]

>>> Selfish users... Pollution! Old outboards spew out plenty... old dirty engines... A personal gain for one at the expense of many.

Hmm rather emotive and over simplified... but I'm not into argument on here so will just be happy that I'm at peace with my maker over our decades of whole family respect for and work towards the environment way before it was fashionable. Sometimes you don't have to tick every box to positively contribute.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Fenlander

>>> Selfish users... Pollution! Old outboards spew out plenty... old dirty engines... A personal gain for one at the expense of many.

Hmm rather emotive and over simplified... but I'm not into argument on here so will just be happy that I'm at peace with my maker over our decades of whole family respect for and work towards the environment way before it was fashionable. Sometimes you don't have to tick every box to positively contribute.

[emoji106] The only thing polluting the planet is the human race. Funny how you never hear the Eco evangelicals advocating a reduction in the human population.
Just sayin’

[HDAV]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

[emoji106] The only thing polluting the planet is the human race. Funny how you never hear the Eco evangelicals advocating a reduction in the human population.
Just sayin’

Surf rescue charities? Commercial? They seem to avoid the need for coding by using 4m inflatables with a pair of oars and and 2 stroke OB yet also get paid to monitor swimmers who pay entry fees into “open water swimming” events?

[tidalwave2.7]

People do consider over population an issue. However it’s generally considered poor form to cull human beings. The Chinese made a stab at it with the one child policy. However it was contentious and has brought its own issues with regard to family structure and elderly care.

As to rescue use it’s a simple exemption to make if a real rescue service. Just painting rescue on your boat to benefit from the exemption is not acceptable. Pretty much the same argument as claiming commercial use when none exists.

[mhill]

What’s your point?

[mhill]

Originally Posted by HDAV

Surf rescue charities? Commercial? They seem to avoid the need for coding by using 4m inflatables with a pair of oars and and 2 stroke OB yet also get paid to monitor swimmers who pay entry fees into “open water swimming” events?

What’s your point?

[tidalwave2.7]

Originally Posted by mhill

What’s your point?

I think it’s a reply that is disconnected from thread. It’s of no matter.

[jeffstevens763@g]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

[emoji106] The only thing polluting the planet is the human race. Funny how you never hear the Eco evangelicals advocating a reduction in the human population.
Just sayin’

yep we are a discussing race for sure but hey ho.we are gettimg better though. If you can get a two smoke use it keep your gob shut, your not going to tip the scales when you look at the rest of the worlds attitude. Plus you can still buy secondhand same environment problem

[HDAV]

Originally Posted by mhill

What’s your point?

They aren’t commercial or are they most seem to use 2 stroke outboards.

Seem to be able to charge but not require coding ?

[mhill]

Originally Posted by HDAV

They aren’t commercial or are they most seem to use 2 stroke outboards.

Seem to be able to charge but not require coding ?

There quite a few situations where you can use a uncoded boat for commercial work if you meet certain criteria. Its a very lengthy and wordy doc from the MCA and far from a easy read if you want to dig it out and see the exemptions.
There is also local authority registration that is much less onerous and allows commercial work too.
Don't forget MCA have no interest in rescue boats working on the Thames @ Henly or the lake @ Bleniham Palace as two examples of mass participation swim events. These events use multiple 2stroke SIBs providing cover for the thousands of swimmers at these and numerous other events safely, legitimately and inside the rules.

Your mention of Surf Rescue clubs, I think there is a exemption for Rescue Craft having 2stroke in the same way commercial operators do. In breaking surf in an Arancia or D Class im not sure id be wanting a 4 stroke on the back to get me through the breakers. Its exactly where you need instant punch and torque and low weight with big power. Equally if flipped its fairly quick and easy to get a immersed 2 stroke running again in 10 minutes, 4 stroke less soo!

[GuyC]

Whilst we are going off topic, rescue boats should not be confused with safety boats. I imagine that open water swimming is marshalled by safety boats. The MCA do have an interest in rescue boats but safety boats are reasonably unregulated.

https://www.rib.net/forum/f50/rescue...ice-84060.html

Back on topic - the two stroke vs four stroke I think stems from the Recreational Craft Directive which mandated stricter noise and pollution levels for leisure craft which, in effect, banned two strokes in about 2008. The RCD is only applicable in Europe and to leisure craft.

Will UK leisure boaters be able to buy two strokes again in the near future?

If you are a commercial user, there is no restriction or exemption you need to apply for to run a two stroke (at the moment).

[Limecc]

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

Why is it OK to polute the environment for your pleasure?

Same non-argument could be used for all the second-hand engines out there. Legislation always aimed at easy pickings, small fry. Not like they have a large capacity.

The big shipping companies are the biggest marine polluter yet nothing's ever said.

I hope that the situation changes now we left the EU. Fuel costs will do the regulation.

[Ribtecer]

Lets not forget four strokes do pollute, just in different ways.

Oil/service parts etc that have to be got rid of, and IMHO these new "super efficient" engines with their electronic designed in obsolescence won't last anything like as long as the old reliable two strokes, meaning more engine parts/whole engines dumped in landfill and more engines will have to be manufactured and shipped around the world all adding to pollution.

And that's not even getting in to the danger side of things, why do rescue boat and fishermen prefer two strokes?

I am all in favour of electronic control in engine management systems making engines more efficient and saving fuel, but in a saltwater I enviroment it just seems crazy.

Keep it simple when lives depend on it.

Many of you won't agree I'm sure, just my 2 pence worth.

[paulbrown22]

Exactly, I think the same with many modern cars and other vehicles too - not enough of these "statistics" look at the actual cost of producing, using and destroying the car/engine/whatever, and instead just focus on short term emissions while in use (and we keep changing our way of measuring those too...). Especially with modern vehicles where the batteries/wiring/electronics/etc. are all horrendously damaging to manufacture, and don't exactly have a very long service life.

In many cases, unless doing millions of miles or thousands of hours, the emissions whilst in use are tiny compared to the overall cost of mining the raw materials needed, the manufacturing process of said vehicle/engine, the shipping/delivery process, and then the disposal process when you decide to upgrade/swap. Personally most of my engines are slightly older, but I don't do vast hours, and so overall far kinder to the environment to not just throw them away and buy brand new 4-stroke engines.

But then again, I think on a RIB forum it's very hard to argue too much about emissions, when pretty much all standard leisure RIB usage burns some type of fuel simply for fun! I'll go get on the sailing boat...

[Tim M]

Super easy to buy all over Europe and the UK. Commercial isn't just coded RIBs etc - also includes rescue boats/tenders on commercial vessels etc.

Ultimately nobody really cares - suppliers or the government. I wouldn't be loosing any sleep if I wanted to buy a new 2 stroke for a non commercial application.

[tidalwave2.7]

Originally Posted by Tim M

Super easy to buy all over Europe and the UK. Commercial isn't just coded RIBs etc - also includes rescue boats/tenders on commercial vessels etc.

Ultimately nobody really cares - suppliers or the government. I wouldn't be loosing any sleep if I wanted to buy a new 2 stroke for a non commercial application.

I agree it’s a non argument. I think the core issue is seeking to circumvent regulations. I agree a small motor used infrequently is not going to make much difference. Certainly not going to get Greta on your ass for the infraction.

I have a small 2 stroke but as it’s been garage bound for a long time I can’t justify replacing it. If I ever get a bigger boat then I will be looking at a four stroke anyway just for the ease of use and noise levels etc. I believe the modern direct injection 2 strokes are as good regards economy etc.

Time and wear will gradually reduce the Small 2 strokes And maybe in future with improvements in battery design we will see electricity becoming more real world useable? Hopefully at Ford prices not Tesla.

[smallribber]

Originally Posted by Ribtecer

Lets not forget four strokes do pollute, just in different ways.

Oil/service parts etc that have to be got rid of, and IMHO these new "super efficient" engines with their electronic designed in obsolescence won't last anything like as long as the old reliable two strokes, meaning more engine parts/whole engines dumped in landfill and more engines will have to be manufactured and shipped around the world all adding to pollution.

And that's not even getting in to the danger side of things, why do rescue boat and fishermen prefer two strokes?

I am all in favour of electronic control in engine management systems making engines more efficient and saving fuel, but in a saltwater I enviroment it just seems crazy.

Keep it simple when lives depend on it.

Many of you won't agree I'm sure, just my 2 pence worth.

I agree

[Livid]

You can pry my 2 stroke from my cold dead hands, cruise ships throw out far more pollution however for a lot of pleasure applications 4 strokes are really nice. Yeah the computers suck ass and go wrong but 99% of the time it's running like a clock, smooth as silk and vastly better on fuel.
My dad has a dory with a 2010 Yamaha 40hp 4 stroke and compared to my sr4 with a 199 Yamaha 40 2 stroke it's had noticeably more issues and costs more to keep serviced, but it's paid the difference in fuel and when it's working it's so much easier to live with, no smoke, no smell, dead quiet and so smooth. There have been times I've accidentally forgotten to shut it off because it's so much quieter than mine i don't realise it's on. That being said the issues I've had can partially be put down to dodgy maintenance, the rnli use 4 strokes on the atlantis 85's now so i don't think you can say 4 strokes are unreliable, they need taking care of like any other engine, they're just less forgiving of abuse. Can't leave a 4s sitting in a shed for 20 years and expect it to bark into life