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21 May 2015, 05:42
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#41
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Sussex
Boat name: Aintree
Make: Redbay Stormforce
Length: 7m +
Engine: Twin 150's
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 257
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My Discovery 3 v6 was 188 bhp and pulled fine but had 100nm less torque than the 2 litre VW.
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21 May 2015, 07:25
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#42
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Gloucestershire
Boat name: Osprey
Make: Osprey Vipermax
Length: 5m +
Engine: E-tec 300 G2
MMSI: TBC
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beamishken
Personally I'd have thought the pickup would have sold better with the 3.0l v 6 fitted
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The place I bought mine from cant get enough of them most sell before they hit the forecourt.
However I can confirm they drive well, have loads of grunt, tow well and the MPG is an improvement over my allroad
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Chris Stevens
Born fiddler
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21 May 2015, 09:38
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#43
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: South Yorks
Boat name: Black Pig
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: DF140a
MMSI: 235111389
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 12,109
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I've got a Transporter with the 180bi-turbo & the 7 speed dsg. I can't say that it sets me on fire, but it does the job & it's loaded up its nuts, I get 35mpg + knocking about & 38 on the motorway which I can't complain about.
.....sh1t happens.......
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Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
Rule#3: Tha' can't educate pork.
Rule#4: Don't feed the troll
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21 May 2015, 10:42
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#44
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Sidmouth
Boat name: Various
Make: Avon, Ribcraft
Length: 4m +
Engine: Mercury 40, Honda 50
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 266
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All of which is fascinating I'm sure, but none of these is a spark-ignited diesel outboard.
I'm intrigued as to whether being spark ignited makes this an Otto-cycle engine or something halfway between a true Diesel and an Otto. It'd be interesting to know what sort of compression ratio it's using as well — presumably higher than the petrol version, but not that high, or there'd be no need for a spark plug. The block might not be able to handle typical diesel engine compression either.
The current 175hp OptiMax is 2.5L and 195kg, whereas this is 3.0L and 236kg.
From this document [ http://www.mercuryracing.com/wp-cont...nce-Chart.pdf] that went with it:
Quote:
This engine does not meet EPA, C-ARB, or CE exhaust emissions requirements... It does not conform to the exhaust and noise emissions requirements of the Recreational Craft Directive.
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So it's not for the likes of most of us anyway. I know the RCD doesn't apply to racing, but what about CE? Does that limit it to military applications only?
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21 May 2015, 11:39
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#45
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Member
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: north ayrshire
Boat name: charlie girl
Make: S/R5.4/regal3760
Length: 10m +
Engine: Suzukidf70 2x6lp 315
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,927
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I guess technically it's not a diesel engine at all ,I thought the definition of a diesel engine was a compression ignition engine.
An interesting concept but it seems little benefit to use spark plugs with an engine running diesel fuel I'd assume the lower compression ratio means that it doesn't take full advantage of the fuels extra energy potential over petrol
The only benefit I can see is the possible ability to run any available fuel
If they just want a diesel outboard why not go down the route of a high output small traditional compression ignition diesel block
There must be good reasoning behind going this route but I'd be interested in why
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21 May 2015, 12:43
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#46
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Mighty Penryn
Boat name: Little Joe.
Make: Avon Searider
Length: 4m +
Engine: Honda BF50
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beamishken
The only benefit I can see is the possible ability to run any available fuel
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Doubtful. Modern Diesel injector pumps rely on the lubricative properties of diesel. They no likey petrol.
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21 May 2015, 13:24
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#47
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Southampton
Boat name: SMH Rib / War Shot
Make: Ribtec / Scorpion
Length: 4m +
Engine: 100hp Yam/150hp opt
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beamishken
I guess technically it's not a diesel engine at all ,I thought the definition of a diesel engine was a compression ignition engine.
An interesting concept but it seems little benefit to use spark plugs with an engine running diesel fuel I'd assume the lower compression ratio means that it doesn't take full advantage of the fuels extra energy potential over petrol
The only benefit I can see is the possible ability to run any available fuel
If they just want a diesel outboard why not go down the route of a high output small traditional compression ignition diesel block
There must be good reasoning behind going this route but I'd be interested in why
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A small high output Diesel engine would need to be turbocharged - which presents problems of packaging and heat dispersion under the cowling.
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21 May 2015, 13:24
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#48
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Leicester
Boat name: Vixen
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 6m +
Engine: Suzuki OB 175
MMSI: 235071839
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,624
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Didn't Barrus knock up a Mariner that was a military burn almost any fuel job? Think it was a small motor though.
I'd expect a lighter block will not be far off so as others have said its just a matter off time, wonder if they'll supercharge rather than turbo charge?
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New boat is here, very happy!
Simon
www.luec.org
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21 May 2015, 13:37
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#49
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Gloucestershire
Boat name: Osprey
Make: Osprey Vipermax
Length: 5m +
Engine: E-tec 300 G2
MMSI: TBC
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Searider
A small high output Diesel engine would need to be turbocharged - which presents problems of packaging and heat dispersion under the cowling.
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Like the OXE...
MEDIA - OXE
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Chris Stevens
Born fiddler
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21 May 2015, 14:54
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#50
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Member
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: north ayrshire
Boat name: charlie girl
Make: S/R5.4/regal3760
Length: 10m +
Engine: Suzukidf70 2x6lp 315
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Searider
A small high output Diesel engine would need to be turbocharged - which presents problems of packaging and heat dispersion under the cowling.
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Not realy a problem with a water cooled turbo you can almost touch the case without getting burned
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21 May 2015, 18:36
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#51
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Southampton
Boat name: SMH Rib / War Shot
Make: Ribtec / Scorpion
Length: 4m +
Engine: 100hp Yam/150hp opt
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
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295-320kg
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21 May 2015, 19:37
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#52
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: bicester
Length: no boat
Engine: outboard only
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 913
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Simon B you are correct the R & D boys and Robby, had that one.If my memory is correct.I think it was the start of this generation of their diesel OBM.
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21 May 2015, 21:21
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#53
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Looe
Make: Delta
Length: 4m +
Engine: Mercury
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,409
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Yes we spent years doing the 50hp engine, that was hard as it was multi fuel so ecu mapping etc for 3 or 4 types of fuel is even harder to do!
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21 May 2015, 23:08
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#54
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Member
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: north ayrshire
Boat name: charlie girl
Make: S/R5.4/regal3760
Length: 10m +
Engine: Suzukidf70 2x6lp 315
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,927
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I can see the point in researching the multi fuel engine but if this recently announced engine is only to burn diesel why bother spark ignition & two stroke it's not exactly lightweight & it's hp/cc isn't great by modern standards
Come on turbodiesel what is the idea here?
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22 May 2015, 05:19
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#55
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: South Yorks
Boat name: Black Pig
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: DF140a
MMSI: 235111389
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 12,109
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NATO has adopted a single fuel policy for small internal combustion engines, so everything has to run diesel. Afaik, the diesel OBM was developed to satisfy this requirement, not because it was "better" Personally I think it will be a long time before us mere mortals will choose one over a petrol & even then, the initial outlay will negate any savings, unless you're doing very high hours.
Just my 2 penneth.
.....sh1t happens.......
__________________
Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
Rule#3: Tha' can't educate pork.
Rule#4: Don't feed the troll
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22 May 2015, 07:26
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#56
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Mighty Penryn
Boat name: Little Joe.
Make: Avon Searider
Length: 4m +
Engine: Honda BF50
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikey Dave
Personally I think it will be a long time before us mere mortals will choose one over a petrol .......
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I agree and if we're restricted to using 'white' diesel, there wouldn't be a much benefit for recreational users.
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22 May 2015, 09:04
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#57
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Member
Country: UK - Isle of Man
Town: Douglas
Length: no boat
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 339
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In our part of the world (away from the Solent !!) we would love a diesel O/B, as petrol is infrequently available but diesel is easy to obtain.
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22 May 2015, 09:21
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#58
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Southampton
Boat name: SMH Rib / War Shot
Make: Ribtec / Scorpion
Length: 4m +
Engine: 100hp Yam/150hp opt
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beamishken
Not realy a problem with a water cooled turbo you can almost touch the case without getting burned
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So, when you say "you can ALMOST touch the case", what you mean is its too hot to touch. Which is what I said?
Would also need a chargecooler which takes up space.
Look at how large a 250hp Verado is with a supercharger and chargecooler.
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22 May 2015, 15:07
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#59
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Member
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: north ayrshire
Boat name: charlie girl
Make: S/R5.4/regal3760
Length: 10m +
Engine: Suzukidf70 2x6lp 315
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Searider
So, when you say "you can ALMOST touch the case", what you mean is its too hot to touch. Which is what I said?
Would also need a chargecooler which takes up space.
Look at how large a 250hp Verado is with a supercharger and chargecooler.
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Water cooled turbos run on most inboard engines are cooled by the closed cooling system & are no hotter than the rest of the engine block. outboards are raw water cooled so in theory can be kept cooler because they are using cold water to cool them as opposed to a heatexchanger system
I'd have thought of all the technical challenges of building a diesel outboard cooling the turbo was a minor problem
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22 May 2015, 15:25
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#60
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RIBnet admin team
Country: UK - England
Town: The wilds of Wiltshire
Boat name: Dominator
Make: SR5.4
Length: 7m +
Engine: Yam 85
MMSI: 235055163
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 13,067
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Supercharger.There's no need for an exhaust driven system.
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