Diesel Polishing/Filtering

[willk]

Originally Posted by Poly

Is this the time of year to be doing this? Presumably there is a reasonable risk you will lose power for a couple of days, and need it all in an operational state?

Yes. We had the threat of a Electrical Union "work to rule" a few weeks ago and it got me in "genny" mode, we gave her the once over and that was when we got to thinking more about the fuel - more in a long term management sense. Being where we are, doing what we do, we face the possibility of several days and nights of having to be self sufficient. I have sore memories of the storm of 1998 when we were left without power or water for almost five days - sporty.

[willk]

Originally Posted by Anchorhandler

Willk, I think you might be reading too much into your capacities that you've quoted... ;-) I tend to overestimate my capacities

Fuel filter capacities are quoted for the benefit of the prime mover that Is drawing fuel through them. For example, if I'm spec'ing a filtration system for an engine that draws 800lts per hour at maximum load then I can base my choice of filters accordingly.
Virtually any positive displacement pump (gear pump) will suck fuel from a tank and transfer it through a filter, especially if your just recirculating back to the tank. it doesn't matter if you maximum pump flow exceeds the filter maxim u m throughput, especially not in your case.
For a very cheap pump, search machine mart for "transfer pump" then call a local hydraulic supply company and ask for a "parker" spin-on assembly and order the micron rating of the filters you want (tell them it's for diesel).
450ltrs is actually a very small amount to filter so no point buying anything fancy.

That sounds positive. I'll explain my setup in more detail - see the attached pic. The storage tank is gravity fed to the day tank, but I use the pump to speed the process. The hose filler can refeed the storage tank.

If a portable transfer pump and a filter can be used to "polish" the fuel in this system then great - it's cheap, simple and portable.

In fairness, the tanks MAY not be as bad as I expect (the current fuel is fairly fresh) but I would like to maintain it with a half decent programme of polishing. My plan is to part empty each tank and then "flush" them with the returning clean diesel, hopefully stirring up the crud and removing it.

Any specific pump/filter set I should be considering? Remember it's me here, a linky would be a huge help I'm guessing 20-30 micron for final filtering? Do I need to consider any kind of mesh filter in the system? I REALLY want to remove as much water as possible too - with the biodiesel component here, water is the bogyman we worry about...

[willk]

Originally Posted by bedajim

Sorry I'm on my iPhone in bed after the works do sampling a lot of cold filtered

I'm reading that all carefully. It sounds very sensible. However, the layout and location of the installation makes it difficult to play around with extra tanks. Also the genset was built with the day tank tightly fitted ON TOP of the alternator so no room for playing around. Something where simple pumping/filtering works well would suit better. In addition, I really don't want to start "plumbing" and have a power failure during a job with a bigger "offline" time.

To put it into perspective, the genny fired up three times on auto last night...

[bedajim]

I'm good thanks A H

If your worried dump the big tank and swap it for an IBC on a frame they've got a bottom connection so easy to flush and very cheap to replace instead of cleaning.

I always think of a cartridge filter as more of a safe guard than a method of removing any real contamination.

[bedajim]

Sorry didn't read your last post

[willk]

Originally Posted by indaba1991

Fuel Polishing System - overview

Here you go Wilk - I have a continuous running system on big Indaba which I bought from West Marine $650. This is not as industrial as the Separ system. Many marine systems for big boats would suit your purpose.

Thanks - it's interesting that you add this perspective to the question, as I was considering making a call to the trawler chandlers in Killybegs.

[Siochair]

I came across this if you fancy a DIY project. Boat Fuel Polishing Systems. I also came across a post where some bloke used a pond pump and the filter from a swimming pool if you fancied a more 'McGiver' approach.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Anchorhandler

So why try to tell an engineer how its done?

i don't know you seem to think you can tell scientists how to do their job? I spent 10 yrs of my life dealing with engineers who expect a dipslide result of a "living system" to be able to give them precise, accurate and repeatable results.

I fail to understand, that after showing you EXACTLY what type of dip slides i am referring to, you cannot see the advantage of me offering to send a few slides up to Willk?? Willk admitted that the fuel he has in store is potentially "buggy" so i offered to send him a few slides.

Since you seem to have picked an argument out of nowhere here is a reminder of what I said:

Originally Posted by Poly

Dipslides are probably more useful for trend monitoring than a one off - without controlled incubation conditions, and previous experience you'll just know there is stuff there (almost inevitable).

Look at the kit you are recommending. It says ANY growth (which it calls a 'reaction') requires remedial action. Do you really think willk's tank will have zero growth? If it did I'll buy him a pint! I'm so sure that he will get something growing in either the water or fuel phases that if nothing grew i'd want to retest!

Considering your such an expert on dip slides, why not tell us all what other indicators to look out for when suspecting biological fuel contamination....and i don't simply mean an increase in sludge/water build-up.

thats actually the point - its not rocket science. If you've got water, you've got sludge/sediment build up, you've got old fuel, you've got fuel that came from a source you've got suspicions about, weather conditions where it is stored (warm temps, high humidity), low fuel through-put, tanks with no bottom drain to get rid of water, slimy coatings on the inside of tanks or material floating at the water-oil interface or a scum on top of the oil, off colour fuel or water, signs of corrosion on inside of tanks or pipework, and smell other than diesel. All those things are risk factors or indicators of a problem if several of those are present and giving 'clean' displide results I'd be much more suspicious than a system with good hygiene giving low counts. Once you've dealt with the macroscopic issues then you can start worrying about whether the micro ones are under control. Its a bit like looking after a swimming pool - if there's jobbies, leaves and sticking plasters floating in it, black mould or algae, broken tiles etc - then testing the water and putting more chlorine in isn't really solving the issue.

To be honest this has turned into the usual tiresome "baffle then with bulls**t" routine

it certainly did as soon as you used the phrase "bacterial percentage"

[willk]

Originally Posted by bedajim

I always think of a cartridge filter as more of a safe guard than a method of removing any real contamination.

I think you're right, I'll probably try to incorporate some sort of rough filtering for the initial cleanup job, catch the lumps and then revert to finer cartridge filtering for ongoing polishing and maintenance.

I wonder is there a closed filter with a rough mesh that might do this job in a manageable way?

On a side note, guys - what is the general feeling about use of biocides? I read different things - some say they can damage injectors? I spotted a note in a Yanmar document that quite simply said, under fuel specifications: "Do not use Biocide"

[biffer]

Poly will you just STOP, you're at it again

[willk]

Originally Posted by Siochair

I came across this if you fancy a DIY project. Boat Fuel Polishing Systems. I also came across a post where some bloke used a pond pump and the filter from a swimming pool if you fancied a more 'McGiver' approach.

Thanks - something like that might be a cheap solution for maintenance of the tanks. I spotted a few of the "homers" too - I'd be wary of any of that stuff

[willk]

Originally Posted by biffer

Poly will you just STOP, you're at it again

I think he's going to have to start a "side thread" soon...


(I can feel a moderator's twitch starting )

[Dirk Diggler]

Originally Posted by Anchorhandler

Nice to hear you admit to a lack of knowledge in something though...

[Ribliam]

I'd say you will be OK for the present on the "Industrial Action" side of things but the weather that we are experiencing at present is playing hell with supplies ..have the Genny on standby..

[willk]

OK - I've read everyone's contributions and PMs and it's given me a lot of ideas - thanks to all. I think I need to break the problem into two parts:

Part 1: Deal with the existing tanks, taking into account the possible crap in them. I sense that using decent filters for this is pointless. I could either pay someone to clean them once or do it myself. If I do it myself, I need to think of a simple system for rough filtering the fuel and a way of jetting the interiors.

Part 2: Install a decent filter system inline before the existing transfer pump. One this is done, all fuel entering the daytank is polished and if I want, I can transfer the daytank contents with a cheap transfer pump back up to the storage tank for refiltering.

From you guys I need two things:

Thing 1: A simple plan for a rough filter

Thing 2: Specs for an inline filter system that will run with my existing transfer pump, see attached pic.

Thanks!

[willk]

Originally Posted by Ribliam

I'd say you will be OK for the present on the "Industrial Action" side of things but the weather that we are experiencing at present is playing hell with supplies ..have the Genny on standby..

You lot - what are ye like? Grrrr!

The genny is 200kva auto switching, so she is always ready to go. She was running three times last night. Her longest ever non-stop running was over three days - Donegal, nice spot but you need to look after yourself in the winter.

[biffer]

We have racor filters on the big raceboat, you can spec different filter microns for the same housing, once you have satisfied yourself with the tanks cleanliness a pair of these should be all you need to keep the genie running, we have the added agro of the boat moving so particles get moved about, a problem you won't have, we also use fuel set additive, one of our sponsors , but it is good stuff

[Poly]

Originally Posted by willk

Thing 1: A simple plan for a rough filter

Are you looking for something like this that you'd need to stand and watch for a couple of hours?

DIESEL/PETROL FILTER FUNNEL LARGE 18.9LPM: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike

[willk]

Originally Posted by Poly

Are you looking for something like this that you'd need to stand and watch for a couple of hours?

DIESEL/PETROL FILTER FUNNEL LARGE 18.9LPM: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike

Hmmm. I dunno - am I?

It certainly sounds like I might be - they do a bigger one too...

[wiLlfish]

Originally Posted by willk

a simple system for rough filtering !

wimmins xxxx xxx xxxxxx

xxx nead to xxxx dem furst

xxxx greese iz wan ov de bestist loobricants nowen too mann


downt axe mee ow I noe dis