E-Tec 250 HP engine down

[Seaharrier]

Last weekend we were trying out a new prop. After 5 minutes our engine stopped running. There was no way to start it up again. They have connected it to a computer but no errors in the log file. So they opened the engine and in the 2 lower cylinders there is water!!! Nobody understands how it’s possible there is so much water in the cylinders. Yes we have a water separator and there has never been water in it. The engine has 150 hours.

So they will replace the whole engine block. But they don’t have such a spare part in Europe it seems … So no boating for us for at least 3 to 6 weeks.

Has somebody ever had such a problem?

[hard1]

Originally Posted by Seaharrier

Last weekend we were trying out a new prop. After 5 minutes our engine stopped running. There was no way to start it up again. They have connected it to a computer but no errors in the log file. So they opened the engine and in the 2 lower cylinders there is water!!! Nobody understands how it’s possible there is so much water in the cylinders. Yes we have a water separator and there has never been water in it. The engine has 150 hours.

So they will replace the whole engine block. But they don’t have such a spare part in Europe it seems … So no boating for us for at least 3 to 6 weeks.

Has somebody ever had such a problem?

Yes a friend of mine lost an Etec 250hp during a charter on Cowes week. He is not a curious bunny and didn't get the details apart from "no.2 piston blew/seized in the bore" due to an oiling failure or something. He went mental on them and demanded a new motor which he got. Oddly enough the dealer said "first time we've come across that Guv" or words to that effect. The replacement has been running fine so far.

[Seaharrier]

Originally Posted by hard1

Yes a friend of mine lost an Etec 250hp during a charter on Cowes week. He is not a curious bunny and didn't get the details apart from "no.2 piston blew/seized in the bore" due to an oiling failure or something. He went mental on them and demanded a new motor which he got. Oddly enough the dealer said "first time we've come across that Guv" or words to that effect. The replacement has been running fine so far.

But ours was full of water (the 2 lower cylinders). Someone correct me if I’m wrong but the only way water can get in is via the air-intake or via the exhaust pipe. But we were testing the prop on a river and all of a sudden the engine started to act strange and 20 sec. later it was dead.

The Bombardier guy told my dealer maybe we have put the engine under water while putting it from the slipway into the river. But that’s impossible. Our dealer was helping us putting it in the water and we “drove” it off the trailer. That means the engine was running, and no water can enter via the exhaust pipe at that moment?!

[hard1]

Originally Posted by Seaharrier

But ours was full of water (the 2 lower cylinders). Someone correct me if I’m wrong but the only way water can get in is via the air-intake or via the exhaust pipe. But we were testing the prop on a river and all of a sudden the engine started to act strange and 20 sec. later it was dead.

The Bombardier guy told my dealer maybe we have put the engine under water while putting it from the slipway into the river. But that’s impossible. Our dealer was helping us putting it in the water and we “drove” it off the trailer. That means the engine was running, and no water can enter via the exhaust pipe at that moment?!

Porous block i'll bet next weeks dole money. It's amazing isn't it. It's always YOUR fault. "The Bombardier guy told my dealer maybe we have put the engine under water while putting it from the slipway into the river."

Outrageous! Good job you had the dealer with you at the time. else they may have even refused warranty repair! My friend refused to accept the repair and said he wanted a new motor and he got one.

[pmorgan]

I have heard of a similar problem to this but with a four stroke engine. As it is possible for a four stroke to suck water up the exhaust pipe, but I am not sure that a two stroke would behave in this way.

[Seaharrier]

They have found the cause of why the engine did not work. It’s probably due to a bad spark plug. One of the cylinders did not work correctly any more. As there was no more combustion in that cylinder, the piston started to wear and finally broke. As it broke it slammed a hole in the engine bloc and just in the “tube” where a spray of water is coming out (sorry don’t know the exact word). So the water was not the cause of the brake-down. It just went in the lower cylinders afterwards.

Strange thing is, we didn’t see it coming at all. The engine did not vibrate or any other sign.

Someone had this before?


paul

[Swifty]

Dont know exactly what the engine brain box looks at or remembers, but would have thought it would have picked up a dead pot?

Anyone able to list exactly what the brain box looks at?

[hard1]

Originally Posted by Seaharrier

They have found the cause of why the engine did not work. It’s probably due to a bad spark plug. One of the cylinders did not work correctly any more. As there was no more combustion in that cylinder, the piston started to wear and finally broke. As it broke it slammed a hole in the engine bloc and just in the “tube” where a spray of water is coming out (sorry don’t know the exact word). So the water was not the cause of the brake-down. It just went in the lower cylinders afterwards.

Strange thing is, we didn’t see it coming at all. The engine did not vibrate or any other sign.

Someone had this before?


paul

See my post above - sounds like exactly the same fault (except the spark plug bit which I am quite dubious about). I am surprised you didn't notice it was only firing on only 5 cylinders, as this would have taken some time to damage the bore (if true).There was no warning for him either. I would be grateful if you could find out which cylinder it was. My friend got a brand new engine out of them.

[Seaharrier]

Originally Posted by hard1

See my post above - sounds like exactly the same fault (except the spark plug bit which I am quite dubious about). I am surprised you didn't notice it was only firing on only 5 cylinders, as this would have taken some time to damage the bore (if true).There was no warning for him either. I would be grateful if you could find out which cylinder it was. My friend got a brand new engine out of them.

there was no special vibration. While testing different props, even my dealer didn't notice anything.

When we bought the boat, we did the prop testing on a river (our dealer has a slipway on that river). With our current prop we reached 5700 RMP’s with 2 adults and 180l of fuel.

But we are always navigating on the sea and mostly with more than 2 adults (4-5). During the end of September, beginning of October we noticed that at WOT we did only 5400 RMP’s. But that might have been to extra weight on board (40l of spare fuel, all kinds of boating gear in the trunk) and not being able to trim as much as on a river.
That's why we thought, the prop is too big and we were testing a new one.

I don’t know which cylinder it is. I’ll ask my dealer tomorrow.

[MarkM]

Very sad, but interesting to read about your problems. I'm about to purchase an E-tec 250 for my boat. What size props did you test with the 2 people on board and what size with 4 people? Can you tell me about fuel use and speed?
After all do you still like your engine?

[roycruse]

Excuse my ignorance - I'm just curious - how does a faulty spark plug and therefore a non firing cylinder result in piston failure.

By my reckoning unless the fuel supply is interrupted there is still fuel and therefore lubricating oil getting into the piston - the fact it is not burning up surely would equate to more lubrication not less.

Or possible could it fail if enough liquid fuel built up in a cylinder that the increased compression its self broke the con rod ?????

Please can a mechanic explain

[Seaharrier]

Originally Posted by MarkM

Very sad, but interesting to read about your problems. I'm about to purchase an E-tec 250 for my boat. What size props did you test with the 2 people on board and what size with 4 people? Can you tell me about fuel use and speed?
After all do you still like your engine?

Original prop was a Viper 23. Top speed was 52kn in perfect conditions. On calm water we could cruise at 30 kn and burn 35 l/hour.

Just before the engine broke down we were testing a Mercury Highfive (5 blade prop). It gave us a better acceleration (even on 5 cylinders  ) but Top speed is unknown as the engine broke down while accelerating above 4500 RMP.

I am very happy with the engine. Our problem could have happen on any DI engine. If today I had to buy a new engine, much will depend on how and how fast Evinrude will solve our problem.

Originally Posted by roycruse

Excuse my ignorance - I'm just curious - how does a faulty spark plug and therefore a non firing cylinder result in piston failure.

By my reckoning unless the fuel supply is interrupted there is still fuel and therefore lubricating oil getting into the piston - the fact it is not burning up surely would equate to more lubrication not less.

Or possible could it fail if enough liquid fuel built up in a cylinder that the increased compression its self broke the con rod ?????

Please can a mechanic explain

The wear had something to do with the lubricative capacity’s of oil and fuel mixture in a cold (non-working) cylinder is not the same as a burned mixture in a warm cylinder. As the fuel and oil accumulates and can only leave the cylinder via the exhaust pipe, is creates wear. But I’m sure someone with more technical knowledge will correct me and explain it a better way.

Paul

[MarkM]

Paul,
thank you very much. Good figures and it gives me confidence.
Mark

[hard1]

Originally Posted by roycruse

Excuse my ignorance - I'm just curious - how does a faulty spark plug and therefore a non firing cylinder result in piston failure.

By my reckoning unless the fuel supply is interrupted there is still fuel and therefore lubricating oil getting into the piston - the fact it is not burning up surely would equate to more lubrication not less.

Or possible could it fail if enough liquid fuel built up in a cylinder that the increased compression its self broke the con rod ?????

Please can a mechanic explain

I am puzzled about this too but am inexperienced with 2 stroke behaviour under these conditons.

In a 4 stroke, the non working piston would be a "passenger" but would not essentially be in immediate risk of failure. I have done many racing laps in a high horsepower "V7" without drama in the past.

I have spoken to the guy who lost his Etec 250 they are now citing "injector failure" as a reason.

Now this also resulted in the destruction of one bore and he said it happened instantaneously - no warning, but it caused the entire motor to shut down as a result. This sympton is worryingly close to the spark plug failure in one piston/bore as mentioned in the start of this thread (basically both instances reflect the failure of ignition in one cylinder through spark or fuel.)

I am trying to get hold of the dealers actual tech report and I will post it here for all to see, not for negative reasons but to perhaps help put people's mind at rest or on alert as I know several people about to part with their hard earned.