Electolysis Problems

thewavehumper · 19 March 2003, 18:50

Our Honda engine and boat were in the Marina for the last 5 weeks the engine was tilted out of the water but the very bottom of the gearbox doesn't come out. In the 5 weeks Electolysis has eaten a hole out of the gearbox and desytoyed the castings in the transfer box. So no water pump or drive. it looks like the repair bill will be arounf 2,2k.

I am certain that the problem has been caused by a leakage from the many liveaboards in the marina and am going to take some measurements between the Pontoons and the Water.

I am not likely to let this go and will invite the Marina owner to buy the new parts, which I am sure he will decline.

I have a couple of Questions which I wouldn't mind getting some informed answers to.

Does anybody know if the Marina owner would have a responsibility to provide a Mooring which is not actively harmful to my Boats

Secondly if the owner does not have such responsibilty would I be able to claim for the damage through the insurance. I accept that policies are different but I just wonder if in general it's classed as accidental damage.

Boy am I glad that I dry store now

cheers

crazyhorse · 19 March 2003, 19:39

Well Stuart I have owned a steel boat for 15 yrs and I can only say we never had any problems.We ensured that the batterys were disconected from the engine and the stern gear at all times.

The way this has happened I can only say that IMHO are you sure you didnt have a foulty ignition switch that coused current to flow through your engine into the water.I would be supprised if it is down to an adjasent boat, unless they are running a current into the water.Are the 240 outlets working,Did you leave a anything with batterys on?, or is there a short somewhere on the berth/boat.As you know we have a alli boat so we need be very carfull of any stray current at all times.

If you have had any electrical stuff done then you may have an angle with your electrition as there may be a short.I cant imagine your marina being responsible unless you can prove they are negligent and there power source has coused this and other people may have had simmilar problems with there stern gear maybe.

Good luck and we can all definatley do without that.

Thanks for the tipp

Mines on the Hard for sure,You just made my mind up.

Aging Youth · 19 March 2003, 19:46

Hi Wavehumper,

Ouch!!! that is one repair bill I would not like to pay for.

I have some thoughts on the subject.

1. First you would have to read carefully the liabillity "disclaimers" that are written within the contract. Assuming that a contract was entered into, between yourself & the Owners of the Marina.

2. If your theory on fouling did cause the damage you would have to prove who was responsible, not necessarilly liable. Two seperate issues.

3. If the Marina is under Management, you may be able recover cost if there is a case of negligence (fouling) on behalf of the management.

4. Check your own insurance policy to see if you have a legal claim service, this would a good starting point to help you process a claim against a third party.

I hope this of some use, good luck

Regards

wavelength · 19 March 2003, 20:07

I may be completely wrong here as I have never had a boat on a mooring (pauper!) but did I read somewhere that you should either lift the outboard right out, which is not always possible, or leave it down far enough for the sacrificial anodes to come into play? There will be dissimilar metals in close proximity.
If I'm wrong tell me-but gently please I'm a sensitive new(ish) man

Dave M

crazyhorse · 19 March 2003, 20:38

Yes Dave you are correct as far as I know,I am supprised that in five weeks this damage has been coused.If there is a stray current then it speeds up the process of deteriation I believe.Sacrificial anodes are important ,But I am just supprised that a hole has appered in just 5 wks,Maybe tha Marina is discharging a current into that berth area but it is sure drastick and costly.

We can see wether we can source any Honda bits for this Housing. Manos had a good link if he is reading this then maybe he can post it.

Manos · 19 March 2003, 20:39

OMG!!! it looks like you have a hand full there.
I don't and cannot see how this could happen to your engine but as far as the liability of the Marina is concerned I can say that law stipulates that a Marina Owner/Manager/Operator should provide a secure and safe anchorage/mooring for all boats in the Marina. He should also excercise due deligence that the boats in the Marina remain safe at all times.
What is safe is a veeeery long list of things.
So if the anchorage/mooring was not safe and the damage was caused because of that then you have a claim. Thw burden to prove that the Marina was in fault lies with you.
Sorry I can't be of any further assistance!!
...and best of luck!!

Manos · 19 March 2003, 20:43

Quote:

Originally posted by wavelength
did I read somewhere that you should either lift the outboard right out, which is not always possible, or leave it down far enough for the sacrificial anodes to come into play?

David I had raised this question before (as how to keep your engine on a boat while in or out of the water- it was a hydrolic gear related question but the electrolisis issue also arose at the time).
If I remember correctly, I was advised by many here similarly to what you say.

So I think you are correct

matiboy · 19 March 2003, 20:52

not much you can do now & wouldnt wish a bill like that on anyone - sorry to hear it

but at least others can now be warned

My question , would dangling a sacrificial anode on a wire from the leg have reduced the corrosion enough to stop this damage- the yaghties tend to do this ?

Ribald · 19 March 2003, 20:55

have a look at:

http://marinesurvey.com/yacht/corrosion_in_marinas.htm

and:

http://marinesurvey.com/yacht/corrosion_1.htm

I know this is an American site but the info is interesting. Also, when they refer to zincs, I think they mean sacificial anodes.

Also on yachts, the anodes are always in the water and I have seen some eaten away a lot quicker that others in marinas. Is your open to the sea or is there fresh water involved?

crazyhorse · 19 March 2003, 21:06

Exelent Post Ribald very interesting links.

wavelength · 19 March 2003, 21:15

Strewth Manos don't tell the wife-I'm not allowed to be right!!!

Quote:

So I think you are correct

Manos · 19 March 2003, 21:20

Wavelength Join the club Mate!! LOLOL

Daniel · 19 March 2003, 21:54

Very sorry to hear of your misfortune Stuart. Nothing i can offer in the way of advice or help though i'm afraid.

While on the subject of anodes does anyone know about the diferance between freshwater and saltwater anodes? I beleive freshwater ones are magnesium and are eaten very very quickly by salt water but i've only learnt this through the grape vine! I also heard that conventional anodes arent much use in fresh water?

jwalker · 19 March 2003, 23:10

You weren't linked to shore power by any chance were you? Chained to a cleat that was connected to a separate earth?
Moored to another boat?

Both zinc and aluminium are sacrificial to steel, zinc first. If you have no, or not a lot of or have painted or antifouled the anode on the bottom of the engine mounting bracket then, by lifting the engine, you have removed the satrificial protection.
The aluminium casing must have been protecting something else. Do you have a SS prop? Remember, the metal does not vanish, it travels off to somewhere else. Not as bits of metal, of course.

Think carefully about how a circuit could be completed between the casing and some other metal further down the periodic table. (Usually iron - steel is iron+carbon so it'll do)

Food for thought, I hope.

If you feel you've solved it, let us all know.

JW.

Manos · 20 March 2003, 06:40

Is it truth that if a boat comes out of the water for a period of time (say 1/2/3months) sacrificial anodes shoul be renewed (even if they are not perished) because they do not work once they come out of water??

This is something I was told in a chandler's shop where they wanted to sell to me sacrificial anodes for my engine.

Appreciate any advise as I never heard something like this EVER BEFORE!!

Garygee · 20 March 2003, 13:10

Hi folks

Sorry to here about this, sounds like it was quite bad.

A few thoughts of my own, while I am not well up on anodes I have had yachts for years moored in salt water.

1) Other boats would only cause you a problem if you was electrically connected to then, via shore power, mooring chains etc. If there is no electrical connection there should be no problem.

2) Do you keep your battery connected, if so i would start here.

3) Have you got copper based antifouling on the leg or boat.

4) Are the anodes which was underwater badly erroded?.

3) The amount of damage sound a lot for 5 weeks so I would think the stray currents must be quite big. If you read in I think last months PBO there was a case of a saildrive leg with similar problems and it gives you a few tips to check. If you cant get hold of a copy drop me a PM and I will scan and e-mail

4) Manos, as far a anodes, i think the only thing you need to do it the anode has been out of the water for a while is give it a good wire brushing to remove the oxides and show new zinc, I have never replced then each year just because they have been out fo the water.

5) Have a chat with MG Duff, they are on the web, they make anodes and if they dont know it it does not matter.

These are my thoughts, as i said i know a little but if any are wrong by people in the know please let me know .

Good luck

Regards Gary

Manos · 20 March 2003, 13:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Garygee
....I think the only thing you need to do it the anode has been out of the water for a while is give it a good wire brushing to remove the oxides and show new zinc.......

This is exactly what I have been doing all this time. But the sodding salesman at the chandlers made me think I was not doing the right thing.
Thanks a lot for the info

jwalker · 20 March 2003, 13:25

Just another wee thought.
If you had one blade of a SS prop in the water, along with the aluminium gear case. The iron (SS)/aluminium/salt water would make a nice little cell.

I wouldn't wire brush the anode (iron particles). File it or sand it.

JW.

dgpw · 20 March 2003, 13:51

What type of honda is it. The honda 75 and the 90 have the same gear box / leg as a merc. Merc legs are oftern used on hondas becaus ethey are eaiser to get hold of and can be cheeper. This is why you sometimes see stripy hondas. Don't know wether this will help bring your bill down but 2k is a lot to have the leg changed.

Brian · 20 March 2003, 15:17

Stuart
You definately have not got a normal situation here.
I know sod-all about the subject but I have had two boats, one with a Honda 75 and one with a Honda 130, PERMANENTLY afloat in a marina, each for over two years. The tips of the engines were permanently in the (sea) water and although they got filthy and fouled, they never corroded at all.