Electrical problem with 80s Mariner 15hp

ferryden · 15 August 2011, 20:23

I have had starting problems and reduced power... so took plugs out and checked them..one not sparking at all!
Switched plugs and proved the plugs were OK themselves... so thought it was the solenoid for the second plug. Then switched round and found both units worked when switched.
So looks like acors electrical problem (wires feeding solenoid)
I hoping to find a competent electro-savvy marine engineer over here (boat in Mallorca).

I hopeful I may be getting to the root of this now... so does this all sound sensible to you guys in the know?

Once again gracias for all advice given (and yet to be recieved!)
Thanks!
Ferryden
(PS Will post on Engines section too in hope of feedback)
(PPS on remote internet cafe over here so will log on tomorrow to check out your feedback... dont think Ive buggered off!

free · 15 August 2011, 21:41

Sorry m8, I'd try to help but you're going to have to give a better description of what you've found so far, what you've said makes no sense to me at all. Guessing by solenoid, you mean coil? If you've no spark, you won't have reduced power, the engine won't start, which is it? Clutching at straws, you were holding the plug agains a good earth when you checked for a spark? Post more,

free

gotchiguy · 15 August 2011, 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by free

If you've no spark, you won't have reduced power, the engine won't start, which is it?

Twin cylinder engine...one cylinder not sparking = reduced power surely? True of most engines AFAIK, wasn't that the proplem that Hightower had? Engine worked perfectly but soon realised was only firing on 5 cylinders?

Fenlander · 15 August 2011, 23:41

FD there are three different Mariner ign systems during the 70s-80s but I think you said your outboard was a W15 model? If so this could be your ign system layout...

W15 (M) r Outboard 662-02241 THRU 662-001845 FLYWHEEL MAGNETO Diagram and Parts

That is you have a set of points and a primary coil for each cylinder under the flywheel... then you have the visible secondary coil (that you're calling a solenoid and perhaps one fed by a grey wire, the other an orange wire) for each cylinder... and it seems you've swapped these secondary coils over to prove they're OK??

If that seems like your system then you must have a fault in the points, primary coil or wiring for the affected cylinder.

Your mechanic will be able to prove this by making checks on the electrical output while it's running but I guess it's going to mean he will have to pull the flywheel off and have a look.

free · 15 August 2011, 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by gotchiguy

...one cylinder not sparking

that makes it a bit easier, why didn't I spot that on the first read, or the second, or third.

free

free · 16 August 2011, 00:53

Primary coil resistance I'd guess at 1.5-3ohms, secondary at 5-6kohms (though I think you've rulled out the secondaries.) Check points are opening, you might be able to do most of this with the flywheel on depending on what wiring you can get at, multimeter on continuity (beep) and rotate the flywheel slowly. With flywheel off, points gapped at 0.20" should get it going. These are rough guestimates for values and not from any reference.

Has it been laid up for a while? Could be points stuck closed, if this is the case and it's not been laid up, then replace condenser as well as points.

Hope this helps,

free

ferryden · 16 August 2011, 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by free

Sorry m8, I'd try to help but you're going to have to give a better description of what you've found so far, what you've said makes no sense to me at all. Guessing by solenoid, you mean coil? If you've no spark, you won't have reduced power, the engine won't start, which is it? Clutching at straws, you were holding the plug agains a good earth when you checked for a spark? Post more,

free

Yup against good earth (casing), engine both problems starting and reduced power mate...was hoping the second plug not firing would also solve my power problem, but if I can get it more reliably starting that would be a start I guess!...

ferryden · 16 August 2011, 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by free

Primary coil resistance I'd guess at 1.5-3ohms, secondary at 5-6kohms (though I think you've rulled out the secondaries.) Check points are opening, you might be able to do most of this with the flywheel on depending on what wiring you can get at, multimeter on continuity (beep) and rotate the flywheel slowly. With flywheel off, points gapped at 0.20" should get it going. These are rough guestimates for values and not from any reference.

Has it been laid up for a while? Could be points stuck closed, if this is the case and it's not been laid up, then replace condenser as well as points.

Hope this helps,

free

Bloody hell mate I would love to pass this advice on down to the bloke that´s meant to be looking at my engine, but I´m not sure my translation into Spanish would work!
Will print this out and see how far I get comms wise with them..
:-) it is an old engine that was laid up... had it out but as mentioned on reduced power... waiting to see if this is the root casue for both power reduction and poor starting..

gotchiguy · 16 August 2011, 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferryden

Bloody hell mate I would love to pass this advice on down to the bloke that´s meant to be looking at my engine, but I´m not sure my translation into Spanish would work!

"free" of charge:

Resistencia de la bobina primaria me imagino a 1,5 3ohms, secundaria a los 5 6kohms (aunque creo que ha rulled a los secundarios.) Revise los puntos se están abriendo, es posible que pueda hacer la mayor parte de esta con el volante en función de lo que el cableado se puede obtener en, un multímetro en la continuidad (pitido) y girar el volante lentamente. Con volante de inercia de los puntos con huecos de 0,20 ", debe ponerlo en marcha. Estos son cálculos aproximados de los valores en bruto y no de cualquier referencia.

¿Ha estado en cama por un tiempo? Podrían ser puntos bloqueada cerrada, si este es el caso y no ha sido establecido, entonces reemplazar el condensador, así como los puntos.

ferryden · 16 August 2011, 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenlander

FD there are three different Mariner ign systems during the 70s-80s but I think you said your outboard was a W15 model? If so this could be your ign system layout...

W15 (M) r Outboard 662-02241 THRU 662-001845 FLYWHEEL MAGNETO Diagram and Parts

That is you have a set of points and a primary coil for each cylinder under the flywheel... then you have the visible secondary coil (that you're calling a solenoid and perhaps one fed by a grey wire, the other an orange wire) for each cylinder... and it seems you've swapped these secondary coils over to prove they're OK??

If that seems like your system then you must have a fault in the points, primary coil or wiring for the affected cylinder.

Your mechanic will be able to prove this by making checks on the electrical output while it's running but I guess it's going to mean he will have to pull the flywheel off and have a look.

Yup one grey and one orange wire..so secondaries they are (not solenoids ..sorry!)
I´m noting EVERYTHING..thanks a lot mate...don´t like the fact most of the parts are obsolete though!!

uncle al · 18 August 2011, 11:45

look at the back of the switch box if it is convexed replace switchbox,they had a problem many years ago also check you have good earths , check your kill circuit wires are correctly connected

ferryden · 18 August 2011, 13:16

Thanks for all advice given guys.. you´ve all been brilliant...

But I´ve just been told the engine is b*lloxed and not worh the cost to repair (obsolete parts etc.).. I´m gutted...

Now going to have to find another one... that works!...

Ach well, some lessons learned here I guess...

Thanks again...
Ferryden

Poly · 20 August 2011, 22:08

Ferryden,

Really? Did they explain what was wrong? I can imagine a main dealer saying "not worth the effort" but that doesn't mean that a competent mechanic can't fix it. I can also believe that coils or other electrickery might no longer be available - but there are a number of outboard graveyards around where you might be able to get a second hand part and get it running again...

ferryden · 21 August 2011, 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

Ferryden,

Really? Did they explain what was wrong? I can imagine a main dealer saying "not worth the effort" but that doesn't mean that a competent mechanic can't fix it. I can also believe that coils or other electrickery might no longer be available - but there are a number of outboard graveyards around where you might be able to get a second hand part and get it running again...

Cheers bud.. but I´ve now ditched the bloody thing and am now looking to buy myself a more recent 15-20hp...I´ve spend too much sweat and tears over this too justify more of the same mate..

Onwards!
:-)