Engine and gear oil in bulk?

[Gobuchul]

We have a group with 6 RIB's between us. I was wondering if it's possible to buy larger quantities of engine and gear oil to save a bit of money.

Can you buy engine oil in 25 litre quantities? Gear oil in 5 or 10 litre?

I have had a quick google but can't find any suppliers of "bulk" engine and gear oil in the UK.

Anyone done this?

[jwalker]

There's plenty of them, I buy all my oils in bulk, nowadays it's usually 20lts or 205lts, often, 20lts is cheaper and ebay can be your friend. Try Opie Oils for starters. I buy some of my Mobil lubricants from Germany, it's cheaper and DPD gets them here just a quickly as buying in the UK. https://www.mein-motoroelshop.de/

You may have local suppliers close to you, Castrol, Shell, Mobil, Fuchs etc. Go to their websites and look for distributors in your region

[neil.mccrirrick]

Rock oil will supply in bulk and deliver. I use their mp3 ultra in my optimax 225hp very happy with the price and service

[A1an]

is there much of a saving buying 25L over 5L?

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by A1an

is there much of a saving buying 25L over 5L?

https://www.mein-motoroelshop.de/mot...?number=15669E

[Gobuchul]

Thanks for the info.

From looking at those websites, they are all selling "standard" motor oil, not "marine" such as that is branded as Yamalube or Mercruiser. I guess that is no difference at all and all the waffle about it being designed for an outboard etc. is just snake oil?

[oilman]

Originally Posted by Gobuchul

I guess that is no difference at all and all the waffle about it being designed for an outboard etc. is just snake oil?

Yes and no. There is no official outboard marine spec from either API or ACEA and years ago the outboard manufacturers wanted one so they came up with their own, the TCW spec, or TCW3 as we are now on.


The spec focuses on stuff like sticking rings, corrosion and these sorts of things. In the UK and in most of Europe we have good quality oils, so finding a quality oil that meets the TCW3 spec is not a problem may it be yamalube, quicksilver or from just an oil brand of which we have many in the UK. Some oil brands I know will use their same motorbike two stroke oil and rebrand it as a 2t marine oil with the TCW3 spec, the reason for this is any good quality bike 2 stroke oil should smash the requirements for an oil to meet the TCW3 spec. So it is really aimed at parts of the world where quality lubricants maybe harder to come by to try to stop people using oils that are too poor in quality.



Cheers,


Guy

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by oilman

Yes and no. There is no official outboard marine spec from either API or ACEA and years ago the outboard manufacturers wanted one so they came up with their own, the TCW spec, or TCW3 as we are now on.


The spec focuses on stuff like sticking rings, corrosion and these sorts of things. In the UK and in most of Europe we have good quality oils, so finding a quality oil that meets the TCW3 spec is not a problem may it be yamalube, quicksilver or from just an oil brand of which we have many in the UK. Some oil brands I know will use their same motorbike two stroke oil and rebrand it as a 2t marine oil with the TCW3 spec, the reason for this is any good quality bike 2 stroke oil should smash the requirements for an oil to meet the TCW3 spec. So it is really aimed at parts of the world where quality lubricants maybe harder to come by to try to stop people using oils that are too poor in quality.



Cheers,


Guy

Are you saying the "outboards run cooler than bikes" and therefore require different oil argument is a myth? & that a bike 2 stroke oil out surpasses a tcw3 oil?
I have always had my doubts that an FC-W 4 stroke oil was any better than its automotive counterpart but I've always stuck with tcw3 for my two strokes
Be interesting to hear from an oil expert

[oilman]

Originally Posted by beamishken

Are you saying the "outboards run cooler than bikes" and therefore require different oil argument is a myth?

Haha I have not heard of that one! Not being a fourstroke man. But yeah, that one is a myth. Having had a quick look at the tests for FC-W4 there is nothing in there that would account for an engine running cooler just all the same stuff a test for an automotive engine oil would go through. From memory the requirements to meet FC-W4 and TCW-3 are not that high, so the oil does not have to be that great. One of the reasons for this, is they sell their outboards globally and no point having them in a area of the world where they cannot produce an oil at a reasonable cost to meet a super high spec. And if you had an engine that really did require a really really specific oil it would also put off the purchaser.

Originally Posted by beamishken

& that a bike 2 stroke oil out surpasses a tcw3 oil?

Yeah pretty much, TCW3 come from bike oils, they did not develop a special outboard 2t oil. The outboard manufacturers created a spec, based on some tests. If you are an oil blender and you submit your bike 2 stroke for the tcw3 test and it passes, then it suddenly becomes a marine oil. From a marketing perspective


One thing to add here, is as we are in the UK we have quite tough regulation on our oils, so by default from a global perspective they are pretty good. If you were a pirate in Somalia finding a genuine tcw3 approved oil might be more tricky and important.

Originally Posted by beamishken

I have always had my doubts that an FC-W 4 stroke oil was any better than its automotive counterpart but I've always stuck with tcw3 for my two strokes
Be interesting to hear from an oil expert

If the engine is under warranty then definitely use an approved oil. And you are correct the FC-W4 is no better than an automotive engine oil if you are comparing like for like. As they are readily available here in the UK, no need not to use an FC-W4 or TCW3 as it is good for peace of mind as the consumer knows it is suitable. In my outboards I run the Fuchs Titan Marine Comp 2t, which is the Silkolene Comp2 in another bottle with the TCW3 spec added.


Cheers,


Guy

[Fenlander]

>>> As they are readily available here in the UK, no need not to use an FC-W4 or TCW3 as it is good for peace of mind as the consumer knows it is suitable.

That has pretty well always been my stance. Cheaper, less known brands or non-marine oils "may" be fine but I'd rather not be conducting that trial myself however small the chance of failure.

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by oilman

Haha I have not heard of that one! Not being a fourstroke man. But yeah, that one is a myth. Having had a quick look at the tests for FC-W4 there is nothing in there that would account for an engine running cooler just all the same stuff a test for an automotive engine oil would go through. From memory the requirements to meet FC-W4 and TCW-3 are not that high, so the oil does not have to be that great. One of the reasons for this, is they sell their outboards globally and no point having them in a area of the world where they cannot produce an oil at a reasonable cost to meet a super high spec. And if you had an engine that really did require a really really specific oil it would also put off the purchaser.






Yeah pretty much, TCW3 come from bike oils, they did not develop a special outboard 2t oil. The outboard manufacturers created a spec, based on some tests. If you are an oil blender and you submit your bike 2 stroke for the tcw3 test and it passes, then it suddenly becomes a marine oil. From a marketing perspective


One thing to add here, is as we are in the UK we have quite tough regulation on our oils, so by default from a global perspective they are pretty good. If you were a pirate in Somalia finding a genuine tcw3 approved oil might be more tricky and important.





If the engine is under warranty then definitely use an approved oil. And you are correct the FC-W4 is no better than an automotive engine oil if you are comparing like for like. As they are readily available here in the UK, no need not to use an FC-W4 or TCW3 as it is good for peace of mind as the consumer knows it is suitable. In my outboards I run the Fuchs Titan Marine Comp 2t, which is the Silkolene Comp2 in another bottle with the TCW3 spec added.


Cheers,


Guy

The tcw3 is not far off the cost of motorcycle oil anyway & actually cheaper than the liquid gold my son runs in his motocross bike.

The FC-W however still holds a significant premium in cost compared to an automotive oil, probably 50% more expensive so reassuring to know its pretty much the same
Thank you for the info very interesting

[oilman]

Originally Posted by beamishken

The tcw3 is not far off the cost of motorcycle oil anyway & actually cheaper than the liquid gold my son runs in his motocross bike.

The FC-W however still holds a significant premium in cost compared to an automotive oil, probably 50% more expensive so reassuring to know its pretty much the same
Thank you for the info very interesting

That kinds of backs up TCW3 being the same as a normal 2t road bike oil, as they are basically priced the same and the reason why the TCW3 is often on the cheaper side of the range is because the TCW3 spec is so easy to pass, the budget end even passes. Quite a few brands over the years have tried to introduce their more premium oils into the outboard 2t market, worked a bit for the racing scene but has never gained any traction in the leisure market. My reasoning for this is being a boater myself the likes of Yamalube and Quicksilver have successfully cornered the market over the years mainly through fear, as it will be the only oil recommended in the handbook and people have fear of the unknown and getting it wrong, which makes sense if you are a few miles offshore. Before I got into the lubricant world, I was the same I only ever used quicksilver because I knew no different.



Last time I tested the Yamalube and Quicksilver it was nothing very special at all, but it carries a price premium in the marine world for what it actually is and people are happy to pay for it, back to peace of mind again. As with the 4 stroke oils, anything with the word "Marine" on it for that matter attracts some kind of special tax!



When I get time I will have a 4t one tested, then I can compare it to road oils to see just how much "Marine" tax has been added to it


Cheers,


Guy

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by oilman

That kinds of backs up TCW3 being the same as a normal 2t road bike oil, as they are basically priced the same and the reason why the TCW3 is often on the cheaper side of the range is because the TCW3 spec is so easy to pass, the budget end even passes. Quite a few brands over the years have tried to introduce their more premium oils into the outboard 2t market, worked a bit for the racing scene but has never gained any traction in the leisure market. My reasoning for this is being a boater myself the likes of Yamalube and Quicksilver have successfully cornered the market over the years mainly through fear, as it will be the only oil recommended in the handbook and people have fear of the unknown and getting it wrong, which makes sense if you are a few miles offshore. Before I got into the lubricant world, I was the same I only ever used quicksilver because I knew no different.



Last time I tested the Yamalube and Quicksilver it was nothing very special at all, but it carries a price premium in the marine world for what it actually is and people are happy to pay for it, back to peace of mind again. As with the 4 stroke oils, anything with the word "Marine" on it for that matter attracts some kind of special tax!



When I get time I will have a 4t one tested, then I can compare it to road oils to see just how much "Marine" tax has been added to it


Cheers,


Guy

Interesting thread & info[emoji106] I’d be very interested to see how BRP XD100 stacks up. It’s a foul smelling fully synthetic 2t oil. I haven’t seen anything in the non-Marine market that is similar.

[willk]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Interesting thread & info[emoji106] I’d be very interested to see how BRP XD100 stacks up. It’s a foul smelling fully synthetic 2t oil. I haven’t seen anything in the non-Marine market that is similar.

This thread reminds me of a dialogue I had with a Frenchman who was proposing to purchase an Etec powered boat from me. He worked for the petrochemical industry in France and was of the opinion that he could produce an XD100 substitute at minimal cost.

[HDAV]

BRP don’t seem to think requiring a premium oil will put people off..... heard good things about rock oil 2t oil even when used in high stress machines (racing) and they will sell in bulk and being Uk blended it should minimise handling costs, Morris in Shrewsbury is another that sells a marine 2t as well as general oils.......

While oil is like perfume it’s 99% packaging and marketing I’m not sure there is much of a saving to be had in 4 t land if buying at the right price (especially compared to the due
Bill!) 2t May be different but if your buying enough you should be able to get a good deal either direct or via a distributor/reseller

[beamishken]

A quick look on ebay finds a tcw3 5l oil from westway @ £24 and yamalube 4l for around £45 & quicksilver a similar price so quite a big saving from major brands to a similar spec product. No real reason to not use the correct spec tcw3 although a considerable saving can be made by avoiding manufacturers marine premium.

When it comes to 4 stroke oils the same search brings up the yamalube and quicksilver at just under £40 but a fc-w none branded oil is a similar price however buying an automotive oil of the same grade is roughly £15 for 5l so a big saving by using the automotive oil without the fc-w rating

[Vinny31]

Now that's interesting from my perspective, I'm still using the quicksilver dfi oil but got stung for £60 for the last 4 litres I bought.

Have been reluctant to use anything else other than the manufacturers recommended oil.
[emoji848]

Originally Posted by neil.mccrirrick

Rock oil will supply in bulk and deliver. I use their mp3 ultra in my optimax 225hp very happy with the price and service

[HDAV]

Originally Posted by beamishken

When it comes to 4 stroke oils the same search brings up the yamalube and quicksilver at just under £40 but a fc-w none branded oil is a similar price however buying an automotive oil of the same grade is roughly £15 for 5l so a big saving by using the automotive oil without the fc-w rating

Big in terms of the cost of the oil perhaps but £25 annual saving is basically nothing when your burning 0.8l per nm at £1.30 a litre (£1.90+ at many marinas)

Am I right in thinking that £45 for 4l of premium branded 2t oil at 100:1 is 10p a litre on top of your base fuel cost? Vs 4.8p for the cheap oil or a saving of £52 a year on £1300 fuel bill? if your burning 1000l of fuel a year? Or is my maths wrong?


I use Stihl branded oil in garden tools that double the price of quicksilver or yamalube!

[dave3235]

Originally Posted by neil.mccrirrick

Rock oil will supply in bulk and deliver. I use their mp3 ultra in my optimax 225hp very happy with the price and service

+1 good lube

[dave3235]

Rock oil good stuff look for best deals 😲