Engine choices

[fjarvis]

I'm going to buy a new BRIG Falcon 400S RIB. It's a 4m RIB, rated to take 112Kg engine Max 50HP. The engines I'm looking at are as follows:-

1. Yamaha 40HP 4stroke with PT&T - Weighs 90Kg
2. Suzuki DF40 4stroke with PT&T - Weighs 107Kg
3. Tohatsu 40 TLDI 2Stroke DI Electric Start with PT&T - Weighs 96Kg

1 and 2 are probably the easiest options as the dealer which I'm buying the RIB from can supply and fit them, if I go for the Tohatsu I'd have to get it elsewhere and have it rigged by a marine engineer seperately.

The Suzuki seems to me the best option as although a bit heavier it's a downrated DF50 and it's also £300 cheaper. Is that a reasonable decision to make or is there anything else that I should be looking at? I also considered the 40HP Evinrude E-Tec, but it's quite heavy at 112Kg ish.

Cheers,
Fraser

[simmons0]

Ive got the Tohatsu 40 as weighing 59kg and the 50 as 69kg.

If its a small boat its going on thats a huge weight saving over a fourstroke, may handle a lot better

[Bootneck]

Get the Tohatsu 40, it will then go S*** of the shovel !

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by simmons0

Ive got the Tohatsu 40 as weighing 59kg and the 50 as 69kg.

If its a small boat its going on thats a huge weight saving over a fourstroke, may handle a lot better

The TLDi model is a lot heavier - 95kgs as it's the same block as the 50hp TLDi.

The conventional 2 strokes are a much better bet if you want to drive like a maniac.


I think in this case I would go for the Yammy - or a normal Tohatsu 2 stroke - some great deals to be had I think.

[fjarvis]

Originally Posted by codprawn

The TLDi model is a lot heavier - 95kgs as it's the same block as the 50hp TLDi.

The conventional 2 strokes are a much better bet if you want to drive like a maniac.


I think in this case I would go for the Yammy - or a normal Tohatsu 2 stroke - some great deals to be had I think.

Thanks for the suggestions folks. Will the extra 17Kg for the Suzuki really make that much of a difference? £300 is a big saving! Plus as it's from the same block as the 50 I figured that was a good thing. I did want to go 4 stroke or 2 stroke direct injection. Tohatsus are also more difficult to get serviced up here there are not too many dealers in Scotland.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by fjarvis

Thanks for the suggestions folks. Will the extra 17Kg for the Suzuki really make that much of a difference? £300 is a big saving! Plus as it's from the same block as the 50 I figured that was a good thing. I did want to go 4 stroke or 2 stroke direct injection. Tohatsus are also more difficult to get serviced up here there are not too many dealers in Scotland.

Suzukis are lovely engines - 17kgs not a massive difference I suppose. If it's the same weight as the 50hp why not go for that? Or is it a lot more?

It MAY even be possible to up the 40hp to 50hp at a later stage - on some modern engines it can be as simple as a chip or restrictor or similar.

To be honest what you save in fuel over an older 2 stroke will prob make more than 17gkgs difference - you can carry less fuel......

[BogMonster]

17 kgs is less than a jerry can of fuel and that doesn't last long in mine!

[fjarvis]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Suzukis are lovely engines - 17kgs not a massive difference I suppose. If it's the same weight as the 50hp why not go for that? Or is it a lot more?

It MAY even be possible to up the 40hp to 50hp at a later stage - on some modern engines it can be as simple as a chip or restrictor or similar.

To be honest what you save in fuel over an older 2 stroke will prob make more than 17gkgs difference - you can carry less fuel......

Good point. Just been offered a new 40HP Evinrude E-Tec (ex-demo, but never been run) cheaper than the Suzuki and it's a few kilos lighter too, I think I'll go for that.

Thanks for the opinions folks!

Cheers,
Fraser

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by fjarvis

Good point. Just been offered a new 40HP Evinrude E-Tec (ex-demo, but never been run) cheaper than the Suzuki and it's a few kilos lighter too, I think I'll go for that.

Thanks for the opinions folks!

Cheers,
Fraser

At the end of the day ALL the engines are pretty good - it all boils down to the best deal at the time!!!

[Nos4r2]

Why a 40?

I'd stick a 50 on there if it's rated for it-specially with 40s and 50s weight being so similar.

[fjarvis]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Why a 40?

I'd stick a 50 on there if it's rated for it-specially with 40s and 50s weight being so similar.

The deal I'm looking at is for an ex-demo E-Tec and it's selling way below RRP, I'd probably be looking at a lot more to get the 50.

[Hugh Jardon]

also bear in mind what others might want on your boat when you come to sell it, resale on some engines is a lot higher than others, ie if you were to fit a standard 2 stroke then that would not be as appealing as a fourstroke or a direct injection opti/etec style engine

[ian parkes]

I have been looking at specs my self for future plans and the Honda 50 is only 90 kg .
I have not priced anything yet but nobody seems to recomend honda that often here , is it because they cost more or other reasons . From what Iam reading they seem to be the lightest of all in the sizes I have been interested in .

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by ian parkes

I have been looking at specs my self for future plans and the Honda 50 is only 90 kg .
I have not priced anything yet but nobody seems to recomend honda that often here , is it because they cost more or other reasons . From what Iam reading they seem to be the lightest of all in the sizes I have been interested in .

Hondas are great but not seen as "sexy" or the "in thing"!!! The 50 may be a nice light engine but some of the bigger ones aren't.

[Hightower]

Originally Posted by Hugh Jardon

also bear in mind what others might want on your boat when you come to sell it, resale on some engines is a lot higher than others, ie if you were to fit a standard 2 stroke then that would not be as appealing as a fourstroke or a direct injection opti/etec style engine

So it's got to be the E-Tec then! Low service costs as well

[ian parkes]

Hondas are great but not seen as "sexy" or the "in thing"!!! The 50 may be a nice light engine but some of the bigger ones aren't.

It seems every make has a good engine in a certain size. I was told the honda 6 and 8 are very old and due for replacement as are some of the bigger ones .
Also I notice the wieght issue depends on what 2 different power outputs the engine has . IE the 20 is also avilable as a 15 and the 50 available as a 40 . these are honda's lightwieght engines that I have seen in comparison to others probably more in the range .
Probably just boring info to those in the know but when starting out I find the spec sheets very interesting to compare .

Iam into bikes and the outboard motor scene is similar in some ways .Exept the 4 stroke technology seems to slower to catch on .

[Hugh Jardon]

i would say it is only on rib net and the rib community that a lot of folks prefer other types of engines than honda. Honda make fantastic engines. Suz probably have the edge on latest marine design and function but with a honda 50 you will get reliability and economy. What you wont get is punch and outright grunt. Need to work out what you need or want. Bare in mind the warranty is only good if you get it serviced to the letter of the warranty.

i have had a honda 90 for 8 years now and it has been faultless, very quiet and smooth and economical but on my rib i have just built i have gone for a opti 200.....reason being the 4 stroke 200s are so heavy and in my opinion a bit on the quiet side and lack the punch and fun.

i get good economy from the opti and it makes a lovely growl which i love

need to decide what priorities are high on your list.

Originally Posted by ian parkes

I have been looking at specs my self for future plans and the Honda 50 is only 90 kg .
I have not priced anything yet but nobody seems to recomend honda that often here , is it because they cost more or other reasons . From what Iam reading they seem to be the lightest of all in the sizes I have been interested in .

[ian parkes]

What you wont get is punch and outright grunt

I guess that is what Iam having a problem understanding .
I have lots of experiance of 2 stroke bikes and understand the revs and instant power a 2 stroke produces . But even my little 20hp reaches max revs before the boat gets there .

To me 50 hp is 50 hp. I can't understand where the difference can be unless the 2 stroke is able to turn a bigger prop .

If I were looking at bike engines I would compare the torque and BHP figures at a given rpm . Boat engine manufacturers dont' seem to quote these figures and looking at CCs per HP they are not very highly tuned or high revving at all.

I guess if I could go into an outboard shop and test drive each engine on my boat then I could for sure understand and make an imformed choice . But unlike bikes and cars i don't think you can do this with outboards .

[Hugh Jardon]

think of it more this way

imagine the 5 series bmw, you can get a 1.8 version right up to a 4.4v8 and then the m5. you will get different performance from each engine version.
now with your boat, if is rated 50 hp max then you should be fine for performance. however if it is rated at 100hp and 50 is acceptable then the engine will be working harder and this is when the traits of a 2 stroke over 4 stroke will show
i always believe that going for the biggest engine you can work wonders for performance and gives the boat/car that alive feeling. my current 4.4 bmw is far more economical than the 2.8 i had a few years ago and a lot faster and more relaxed.
so it is a balance to what you are putting 50hp onto the back of..

for punch and grunt, holeshot and popping onto the plane are usually easier with a 2 stroke.

i have a yam 15 two stroke and would never ever ever swap it for a 4 stroke equivilent as the yam will always be more gutsy

if you were comparing to bikes then in small and also specialised bikes then 2 stroke is king but for large road bikes 4 stroke is king by far for me

only two stroke i have is a gas gas


not sure if that helps you or not

Originally Posted by ian parkes

I guess that is what Iam having a problem understanding .
I have lots of experiance of 2 stroke bikes and understand the revs and instant power a 2 stroke produces . But even my little 20hp reaches max revs before the boat gets there .

To me 50 hp is 50 hp. I can't understand where the difference can be unless the 2 stroke is able to turn a bigger prop .

If I were looking at bike engines I would compare the torque and BHP figures at a given rpm . Boat engine manufacturers dont' seem to quote these figures and looking at CCs per HP they are not very highly tuned or high revving at all.

I guess if I could go into an outboard shop and test drive each engine on my boat then I could for sure understand and make an imformed choice . But unlike bikes and cars i don't think you can do this with outboards .

[codprawn]

I think it is more down to the way the power is delivered and the fact that 2 strokes tend to be lighter.