Engine seems to have given up on me...

[Mr-d]

Engine started emm, last tuesday... ran for about 5 min (Only on one cilinder) and then started shaking around skipping firing out, i turned to wide open throttle and nothing happend, turned her back down again and engine stalled... and refused to start again...

Had engine to bits to fit killswitch with lanyard, and checked plugs and cabling
had a peek in the cilinders, and there are rather sooted up, so sprayed some engine cleaner into them, and then blasted it out again with compressed air (at an angle, not directly into the piston rings )

Hooked up everything again, left spark plugs out, turned it over a few times until it started to feel easy again, checked for sparks on both cilinders, and stuck the whole thing back together.

Great, had the engine running in a bath tub fine last night, after cleaning it up.. now it fires and runs about 1 second and dies on me, fires up fine again a few min later and dies again.... also get a nice waterfeature out of the exhaust of water flying up high into the air (backfire).

maybe she just needs a night rest, has been sitting horizontal overnight..

will try again tomorrow..

Are there any Outboard Engineers/repairers around on the forum looking for some help during september - january?

[Turbodiesel]

Well as always it could be all sorts of things, If its back firing have a look at the flywheel keyway i have seen them broken before, this will allow the flywheel to slip making it backfire. Are you sure its getting fuel? maybe try priming the fuel line once you have it running if it carries on running while your priming it then maybe your fuel pump is no good.
Although it does sound like a electrical faulty to me.

[Mr-d]

Pfff, Fuel pump? Back in those days they just invented the wheel!

It's only a 20 horseys 1978 mercury, it is getting plenty of fuel, and even floods when it does not fire... and it has sparks.. it is stator controlled so you cant really make it fire at the wrong time, unless you manage to move the crankshalft somehow.. the keyway appears to be fine, had it off 2 days ago... i want to take it to bits, but them seloc manuals are almost 30 quid! its rediculous!

my daddy does not want me to take it to bits because he is afraid i will brake something or not be able to put it back together, he'd rather bring it to a mechanic and have it looked at, and then most likely charge me with the 400 pound bill.

im not scared of exploring machinery and taking a look at how it works, but i feel that my dad does not really trust me... last time when i wanted to take it to bits we had a 30 min discussion and it ended up with "Right, you do whatever you like, but dont expect me to help, and if you take it to bits we will be sure that it never works again, and you might as well throw the whole thing away."

Do you think i should listen to my daddy and leave it in a non working condition, or should i go ahead and take it right to bits anyway... it's my mums outboard and she refuses to get it repaired at vast expense, my dad's more of a sailing type and so hates anything with an engine on it and wants nothing to do with the "problems" it gives.

[Pete7]

Daniel when you said you sprayed engine cleaner into the cylinders you mean like Gunk or something ? with a piston at the bottom of the stroke cleaner would go down the intake ports straight into crank housing which is used by the incoming fuel air mix prior to entering the cylinders.

You said the engine ran "the other night" so asume the electrics are fine and you have checked that the new cut out swtich is wired the correct way. From memory later ones work by making a circuit rather than breaking a circuit. Have you checked both spark plug leads for sparks ?

Should be a couple of brass screws on the bottom of the carb float bowls. Undo and these should drain the carbs. Start with the correct mix of clean fuel and new 2 stroke oil. A can of eazy start whilst frowned apon by this forum will assist in getting it going if there is nothing else major wrong.

You need to get this engine running at least before tackling any further problems.
Pete

[Mr-d]

Yes, its sparking, we had it running with everything wired up, and it does fire over every now and then but dies straight away.

I never thought about the intake's DOOOOH!
anyhow, any fuel coming the other way should have cleared by now.

Yep, our one makes a circuit and earths out the coils to stop them from producing a spark.

i think its just something with degreaser and the fuel going wrong at the moment, maybe even something to do with the fact that it has been on its side for more than 24 hours and returned to vertical and attempted to start straight away after 5 min.

The tide is out at the moment, so i cant test it.. but i dont think ill be going out far in that boat for a long long time now, scared that it will pick up, and rowing on that boat SUCKS.

maybe i should buy a good old Seagull engine, they never go wrong

[Pete7]

You trying to do this on the sea get that thing up on the shore and in a bucket. Next doors bin will do nicely.

Go for the eazy start.

Pete

[Mr-d]

Perhaps i should not say this, but i live next to kentra bay, its a tidal bay. it dries out completely, and its all sand... with a few islands in the middle. It never gets deeper than 4 metres until you hit the pier. it's ideal for fun, and quite sheltered.



if something goes wrong, you get blown ashore, and even if you dont, you can always get out and walk (when close enough to the side)

The problem i have is that when i want to start it it usually falls over, so i need someone else to stablise it when i want to start it, and i still cant put it in gear (it has RPM lock on it in neutral)

[Erin]

It sounds to me as though you've got the right attitude about this engine thing. Likewise, I always want to take things apart myself rather than let the mechanic do it. Not just to save money, but also so that I'll know how to put it right if it fails on me in the middle of nowhere.

Anyway, have you checked that the choke is operating correctly. I had a problem with the choke sticking in the on position which meant it took ages to fire up but only after disconnecting the fuel line. Might be worth a check. I've never had much success adjusting carburettors, but most engines will have a standard setting for the pilot screw such as 2 turns out from fully closed. Maybe a mechanic will tell you the standard setting.

Good luck

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by Mr-d

...it is getting plenty of fuel, and even floods when it does not fire... and it has sparks.. it is stator controlled so you cant really make it fire at the wrong time....

If it has good fuel and a spark at the right time it will run, unless it's fkkd.

[Mr-d]

Okay, had a quick look again, took the plugs out... cleaned them, turned it over by hand again... stuck the thing back together, waited for the tide to come in... attempted to start up.. 3 pulls with choke on, 3rd pull, nice water fountain out of exhaust. Switch choke off, pull again, another nice fountain. pull as many times as you like, but it wont do anything after that again until you do the choke on, 3 pulls thing.

Choke is working, it's on the front of the engine (Side with the puller) and i can see the butterfly valve opening and closing. (with cover off)

Anyhow, Seloc manual is ordered.. and hopefully will arrive soon...
I also took the spark plugs out after it backfired, and one seemed to have droplets on it, which looked like water, but could have been engine cleaner..

the stator is free to move around, so nothing should retard the ignition...

im fearing for something shifted inside the engine on the crankshalft, or some rings/gaskets gone.

Dad says we might as well throw it away if i start taking it to bits, but i believe otherwise... it's a dead engine at the moment, so what harm is there in taking it to bits? (Except if i lose/break bits )

Oh, good smiley, my dad and me:

[Erin]

I do know of an engine which needs three pulls of the choke (push it in and out three times) before then pulling once more and leaving it out. The engine then starts fine. God knows how they found this out, but it is the only way to get it to fire up.

[Mr-d]

It always used to fire first pull with choke out, and then with choke in again first pull and run.

[Tim M]

Mr-d, if you can't fix it, you could always buy my lovely 25hp Evinrude. Great runner, absolute bargin at £200! (Could get delivery to you for £60)

Fixing your outboard on your 18th birthday, that's dedication!

[Mr-d]

What year is it?

Nah, haven't exactly got £260 to spend, and if i did i should probably invest it in a driving license/car.

Im not fixing it today, i have given up until i receive the seloc manual + bits.

Looks like there might be something wrong with the crankshaft or seals around it. Only one way to find out

Just received the 303 test package, after bullying my dad we might actually go and pick the boat up and ill have a go at it... I'll post pics on the other thread.

[tue]

You need to do a compression check to make sure they are up to speck and not more than 15psi difference between cylinders. Are the droplets water or fuel? The fuel pump diaphragm could have split, causing fuel to pass into the crankcase so will cause flooding when engine fires up. If it is water then being a 1978 engine I would suggest removing the side plate and cylinder head to check the water jackets have not corroded through causing water to enter the cylinder.

Is it only one cylinder with the droplets on? If its the bottom one and its fuel check the fuel pump diaphragm. If its water check the water jackets or maybe the lower crankseal or lower water jackets under powerhead.

Remember its a 1978 engine and in reality its not going to be worth spending more than a couple of hundred quid to get it working.

[Mr-d]

i have no way of doing a compression check, i lack the tools.

As for the fuel pump idea, it's a carb, and it draws fuel as far as i know.

I have only once seen the droplets, they looked like water sitting on a oily base, but could have been fuel.

i suspect it is just a gasket somewhere that is broke.
It could also be that the needle in the carb does not seat properly.. but i'd have to check.. as you might know i have a daddy.

Well, yes, but have you tried finding a 20HP engine in working condition for under 500 quid? (in reasonable condition)

this thing has everything there, but it just does not run... i suspect it is something really stupid that needs to be replaced.. and whatever i do with it, it should be worth taking apart and having a look at, possibly not worth it taking it to a professional guy and get charged a few hundred quid.

[Tim M]

Well, yes, but have you tried finding a 20HP engine in working condition for under 500 quid? (in reasonable condition)

Yes, it's sitting in my shed. That's the end of my shameless advertising

[tue]

Originally Posted by Mr-d

i have no way of doing a compression check, i lack the tools.
As for the fuel pump idea, it's a carb, and it draws fuel as far as i know.

A compression check is something you need to do as the symptoms you describe could be due to a lack of compression.

Your engine still needs a fuel pump to get the fuel to the carb!! It won't draw it through itself, unless you have an integral which makes it gravity fed!!!

[Mr-d]

It's only a 20HP.
The carb has a float in it which regulates the ammount of fuel taken in. As soon as the 2nd stroke is done, a small one way valve will open to the crankshalft, Sucking fuel into it, and therefor drawing fuel up through the hose to. The fuel line is about 2metres (6 feet) long.

it has been running without a fuel pump all its life, and i believe that it is still the stock tank, but the hoses have been replaced (1997 is what they say)

[nickjaxe]

Sounds like a fuel prob to me mr d, I trick i use sometimes is to remove the cover/air filter type thing from the front of the carbs, so as you can see the air inlets on the carbs, has it one or two, anyway as one of the other guys has said to you get your self a tin of easy start, and if sombody can spray some into the air intakes as you crank it over, if the carbs are not giving fuel it will start on the easy start, and if it does you know you will have to check the fuel sys, how long since it last ran ok, if it was some time or you are useing very old fuel you can get gum in the carbs from the old fuel ect, and it will block things up, the easy start spray you can also take the plugs out squirt some in the bores the crank it over it should start and run on that but only for a few moments, I wonder when you say the plugs had dropplets on them, when you are moving the engine around you are not getting the lower leg to high and letting water run back up the leg and into the bores by any chance, seen this done many times, bugger to start after, let us know how you go on.

Nick.