Etecs, whats the problem ?

[Bushrider]

Here my few pence ..
Had an ETEC 90 on the stern of my 5.4 and went last year Round Ireland . The ETEC never missed a beat . Have to add that this motor came brand new out of the box .
This year I made the Round Britain with an ETEC 250 . All way round the motor worked like a swiss clock (issue with Alex´s knee touching the kill switch does not count )
This motor was manufactured in 2007 .
I love the instant power of these motors and if the systems operation is understood they are not that scary anymore as most people think .

[matt h]

BushRider ..I do like the look of them but you do hear about too many stories reference failure etc.
Im looking out for a new engine currently but the new Etec is heavier than the equivalent four stroke..by 12 Kg in that range..
How can a Yamaha triple Four Stroke be lighter than a twin cyl Etec two stroke? I went to look at a couple of ribs a few years ago, when we got to launch them,It was too cold for them to run.kept going into limp home mode.. . Twice I made that journey and twice I came back with no demo under my belt. Ended up buying a new Suzuki which didn't need expensive oil and ran superbly in freezing weather as you would expect. Could not take the risk with the other one as I do a lot of winter boating.
I then went out on a mates rib and that gave up.Water in fuel the dealer said. there was a small thimble amount of water in the water separation bowl. but enough to ruin the weekend. I hear you have to mark the spark-plugs, 10 degrees out and it wont run.Is this right?
Another trip out on a different Etec, the Trim and Tilt switch wanted to work remotely of any command given!!
Only a short while ago via Ribnet, another two Etec owners have had that boating holidays curtailed because of Etec faults.

Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel with this latest range of engines why don't they lessen the running tolerances on the existing range so that you don't need an on-board laptop to make them run continually, then you could use them as an outboard.

BR . Are you sure each stroke is a power stroke? Lets also chuck in a Compression stroke for good measure

[Bushrider]

Agree that there are many stories out there about bad reputation of ETECs respectively low reliability .
I am the 3rd owner of the 250 and the powerhead was replaced under warranty . Why ? I do not know .
When I got the boat I knew that the motor had a bad injector . So I replaced it .
30 hours later 2 more injectors gave me trouble .
I started to investigate the entire fuel system and found the VST filter plugged . The fuel return from the injectors goes through this filter and any restriction will cause the injector coils to overheat but it sits hidden in the fuel line and most people do not know that it exist .
When I wanted to order a new VST the DEALER (!!!) asked me what the VST filter is - he never heard about it ..
I just said that he suppose to know cause it is a maintenance part ..
Is this all a fault of the engine ? No - this is lack of dealer & maintenance expertise !
Same with the EMM . In most cases the EMM failure is caused by something else like wing nuts or similar .
Also not really something where the motor can be blamed .
As for water in fuel I installed a RACOR where I can easy access the drain plug . There is not much more you can do except to check regularly . The fuel filter at the motor has a water sensor but when this gives alarm then you will find definitely already water in the RACOR bowl .
I also made a low & high pressure fuel check and everything was within the specs . Also the fuel level in the VST was according to specs .
Furthermore I installed a transparent fuel hose between low & high pressure fuel pump and ran the engine @ WOT to see whether there are air bubbles in the system . They are also an injector killer on the long run .
As for oil burn I would say it really depends what you want to do with your motor .
Just to have fun during weekend the oil burn will not bother you much .
Long distance cruising hurts much more - here you are probably better off with an 4 stroke . On the RB we burned 40 liters of XD100 which I consider is quit a lot although the burn ratio was just 1:70 with XD100 settings .
On my ETEC90 the fuel consumption was far lower and therefore also the oil burn .
So it really depends what you want to do .
If you have a good & knowledgable dealer near you - I would go for an ETEC - taking advantage also from the 3+2 years warranty .
Usually ETECs are also cheaper than 4 stroke engines of the same power and for the difference you can burn A LOT of 2 stroke oil while the 4 stroke anyway still requires annual maintenance which is also not cheap ..
For the 90 I paid more than 3000,-€ less than for the best offer for an Suzuki lean burn ..
But again - all above mentioned items are my personal opinion but I would go without hesitation for another ETEC .
As for computer diagnostic - not sure there are still new motors on the market without the possibility to hook on a computer ..
May be Whisper will comment also about his impressions during the RB regarding the ETEC .

[matt h]

BR..Surely with all those earlier issues you had you would have stayed clear of a ETEC. and gone for something more reliable.
I'm not so sure if there are as many dealers as there was and in any case the dealers cant fix these faults as you've found out and also have been mentioned before on Ribnet. I know of a Rib manufacturer that prefers NOT to fit them due to BRP support /parts and reliability issues.
Ref the Oil burn on yours. This sounds huge or is this normal? 40 liters of XD100 is roughly £500 worth of two stroke oil... jeepers..
What would a comparable 4 stroke burn, lets say Suzuki 250 burn in engine oil. 1-2 Litres in your trip?

Sorry forgot to say. Massive well done for the trip and for being nice to our resident Ninja!!

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Bushrider

As for computer diagnostic - not sure there are still new motors on the market without the possibility to hook on a computer ..

At least with the Etec you can get the software & cable if you know where to look & do your own diagnostics, otherwise a stealer will no doubt charge you handsomely for doing it for you. In 5 years with 2 motors I have had to change 1 injector (out of 8) & 1 EMM. I can't explain the injector failure, just one of those things. The EMM was a dodgy battery connection, partly operator error Having the software enabled me to carryout both operations at home. The EMM transplant takes around half an hour & an injector replacement is about an hour. The software also allows you to change various settings, & monitor the health of the engines. You can clear & read fault codes etc. I fail to see why having the software available should be seen as a disadvantage It certainly ain't necessary to have it "on board". In the same period, both engines have had 1 service which cost sub £600 for the pair. On a recent trip up Scotland, we did around 400miles in the week & I used 2 (US) gallons of XD100 which is about 8litres & cost around £90. Would I have another Etec? Unless something drastic happens in the engine market in the next 6 months, it's a fait acompli. Regarding plug indexing, it's a doddle to do & AFAIK other modern (DI) engines also benefit from it.
Etecs DO have weaknesses, the injectors are pretty intolerant to water & overheating.....Fit good filters, add a splash of 2 stroke oil to the fuel tank at fill up.
The EMM imho is a poor design, which I've highlighted before, the battery charging is all handled by the EMM, & as the engines have one of the highest DC outputs of any outboard (130A) the EMM has to be watercooled. If the cooling circuit gets blocked or you have a loose battery connection in the circuit, you can pop the EMM. Mine didn't fail entirely, just the charging circuit, the engine ran perfectly. I got a very good deal from my dealer on a new EMM, even though I was out of warranty. Another reason to support your dealer & establish a good relationship.

Why do people hate Etecs, Dunno It's usually people who haven't had one, that read too much on the internet that do all the bashing. Very rare to hear an Etec owner bashing Mercury/Yamaha/Honda etc. May be because we stick to what we know (OK I might have had a dig at Hondas in the past, but that was more to do with the gobshite dealer than the engines)

[Seaflyer02]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

At least with the Etec you can get the software & cable if you know where to look & do your own diagnostics, otherwise a stealer will no doubt charge you handsomely for doing it for you. In 5 years with 2 motors I have had to change 1 injector (out of 8) & 1 EMM. I can't explain the injector failure, just one of those things. The EMM was a dodgy battery connection, partly operator error Having the software enabled me to carryout both operations at home. The EMM transplant takes around half an hour & an injector replacement is about an hour. The software also allows you to change various settings, & monitor the health of the engines. You can clear & read fault codes etc. I fail to see why having the software available should be seen as a disadvantage It certainly ain't necessary to have it "on board". In the same period, both engines have had 1 service which cost sub £600 for the pair. On a recent trip up Scotland, we did around 400miles in the week & I used 2 (US) gallons of XD100 which is about 8litres & cost around £90. Would I have another Etec? Unless something drastic happens in the engine market in the next 6 months, it's a fait acompli. Regarding plug indexing, it's a doddle to do & AFAIK other modern (DI) engines also benefit from it.
Etecs DO have weaknesses, the injectors are pretty intolerant to water & overheating.....Fit good filters, add a splash of 2 stroke oil to the fuel tank at fill up.
The EMM imho is a poor design, which I've highlighted before, the battery charging is all handled by the EMM, & as the engines have one of the highest DC outputs of any outboard (130A) the EMM has to be watercooled. If the cooling circuit gets blocked or you have a loose battery connection in the circuit, you can pop the EMM. Mine didn't fail entirely, just the charging circuit, the engine ran perfectly. I got a very good deal from my dealer on a new EMM, even though I was out of warranty. Another reason to support your dealer & establish a good relationship.

Why do people hate Etecs, Dunno It's usually people who haven't had one, that read too much on the internet that do all the bashing. Very rare to hear an Etec owner bashing Mercury/Yamaha/Honda etc. May be because we stick to what we know (OK I might have had a dig at Hondas in the past, but that was more to do with the gobshite dealer than the engines)

This does make me smile. I have run a Evinrude Ficht for a few years now (and we have all seen the comments about them usually from people who have never had one) and each time I launch it starts first time no fuss.
The last time I launched there were two other boats powered by OB's with these amazing reputations and..........they would not start!
Once again I turned the key and as usual started first time, would I swap my motor? Only for another Ficht or Etec.
Each to there own but before condemning a hi-Tec motor speak to the ones that run them on a regular basis.

I do not understand the anti Evinrude brigade, Ole Evinrude invented the OB and the label is now owned and manufactured by Bombardier - they make the Rotax engine used in micro lights and ultra light aircraft, they also make snowmobiles, Business jets, and Sea-doos. and the Virgin inter city trains!
Have a look on YouTube at their new Evinrude engine plant!
When I look through the threads ALL outboards appear to have had there own problems at some time or other but do not appear to attract the usual derogatory comments.

Yes I may be new to Ribnet but I have been boating with true inflatables and RIBs from the early seventies so I do have a little experience on the subject.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Seaflyer02

This does make me smile. I have run a Evinrude Ficht for a few years now (and we have all seen the comments about them usually from people who have never had one) and each time I launch it starts first time no fuss.
The last time I launched there were two other boats powered by OB's with these amazing reputations and..........they would not start!
Once again I turned the key and as usual started first time, would I swap my motor? Only for another Ficht or Etec.
Each to there own but before condemning a hi-Tec motor speak to the ones that run them on a regular basis.

I do not understand the anti Evinrude brigade, Ole Evinrude invented the OB and the label is now owned and manufactured by Bombardier - they make the Rotax engine used in micro lights and ultra light aircraft, they also make snowmobiles, Business jets, and Sea-doos. and the Virgin inter city trains!
Have a look on YouTube at their new Evinrude engine plant!
When I look through the threads ALL outboards appear to have had there own problems at some time or other but do not appear to attract the usual derogatory comments.

Yes I may be new to Ribnet but I have been boating with true inflatables and RIBs from the early seventies so I do have a little experience on the subject.

My previous boat (RC585) had a Ficht on the back & the first I knew of any Ficht problems was when I came to sell it I was getting odd questions from potential buyers about all the problems with the Ficht engines which I knew bugger all about (this was my pre Ribnet days.) I never had a problem with the engine & it was sweet as a nut & like you say, started first time every time, just like the Etecs. Apparently the Ficht problems were down to cylinders scoring due to carbon build up, that was down to people using cheap 2 stroke oil, rather than the recommended FICHT oil, which mine ran on from day one

[matt h]

Ole Evinrude invented the OB

.. Err no he didnt, It was invented by the American motor co in 1895 or something like that.Hey Seaflyer, with this type of knowledge kinda dilutes the rest of your spiel.

[Bushrider]

Originally Posted by Seaflyer02

I do not understand the anti Evinrude brigade,

I do understand the deep frustration of people who had ETECs and had to rely fully to not competent dealers ! You can burn a lot of money this way and you lose the trust in the product and to the dealer .
So the ETEC dealer who told me that I can use any injector in my motor - there are all the same ..
Would have been an expensive FATAL mistake cause the nozzle angle changed from 2007 to 2008 .
BEST source for ETEC issues is the ETEC owners forum !
Great guys there !

[Seaflyer02]

Originally Posted by matt h

.. Err no he didnt, It was invented by the American motor co in 1895 or something like that.Hey Seaflyer, with this type of knowledge kinda dilutes the rest of your spiel.

This was the info I had read:
In 1900, Evinrude co-founded the custom engine firm Clemick & Evinrude. In 1907, he invented the first practical and reliable outboard motor, which was built of steel and brass, and had a crank on the flywheel to start the two-cycle engine. In 1907 he had built his first gasoline-powered outboard motor, and two years later, Evinrude Motor Company was founded in Milwaukee. The simplest type of engine the company produced was a 2-stroke internal combustion engine that was powered by a mixture of gasoline and oil.
Evinrude reported that his invention was inspired by rowing a boat on Oconomowoc Lake, a small lake outside Milwaukee, Wisconsin on a hot day to get ice cream for his girlfriend, Bess.[3] By 1912, the firm employed 300 workers. Evinrude let two motorcycle mad teens tinker in his Milwaukee based machine shop; one was named Arthur Davidson who went on to Harley-Davidson motorcycle fame, also based in Milwaukee. Ole Evinrude formed Evinrude Outboard Motors, which he sold in 1913 in order to look after his sick wife.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by matt h

.. Err no he didnt, It was invented by the American motor co in 1895 or something like that.

Funny, I thought it was Gustave Trouve in 1880, but hey who remembers old Gustave & The AMC

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by matt h

.. with this type of knowledge kinda dilutes the rest of your spiel.

Crass, as we'd expect.

[matt h]

He's back. finished mugging old grannies have we?

[matt h]

A bit of Google info and cut n paste.
outboard motor was manufactured in this country as far back as 1896! Called the "American," it was produced by the American Motor Co., of Long Island, New York.
The American was a four-cycle, air-cooled motor rated at one and two horsepower, apparently being built to burn either kerosene or gasoline at the buyer's option.
Meanwhile, a young man named Ole Evinrude, the son of Norwegian immigrants, had been growing up on a farm in Dane County, Wis. He did his farm chores as a good son should, but it was hard for him to repress a very strong inclination toward mechanical things. At the age of 16 he decided to go to the big city-meaning Madison-and take a job in a machine shop. He went to work in the farm implement shop of Fuller & Johnson at 50 cents a day. Quickly learning all he could from the machinists, he moved along to other places, ever in search of new knowledge. He worked in the Pittsburgh steel mills and Chicago machine shops, learning all he could from his daily work and evenings spent studying mathematics.

A very competent machinist and patternmaker, he eventually settled in Milwaukee and became a consultant to the E. P. Allis Co. Spare time experimenting with the then-new gasoline engine led to his building himself a four-cylinder, air-cooled car which he used for his own transportation. This in turn led to the establishment of the firm of Clemick & Evinrude, the goal of which was to pioneer in the manufacture of a standardized engine for the many small, inexperienced automobile builders springing up all over the country.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by matt h

. outboard motor was manufactured in this country as far back as 1896! Called the "American," it was produced by the American Motor Co., of Long Island, New York.....

Ah but! Good old Gustave lodged a patent for an electric outboard in 1880

Originally Posted by matt h

.........with this type of knowledge kinda dilutes the rest of your spiel.

[matt h]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Ah but! Good old Gustave lodged a patent for an electric outboard in 1880

PD we are talking about Evinrude IC engines. Ha ha not electric or steam
If one of those electric engines were lounging around in a barn or something like that.. Wow!

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by matt h

PD we are talking about IC engines......

Oh! I must have missed that, some one made a statement about "inventing the OB" didn't see any reference to the source of energy

[matt h]

I was just responding to Seaflyers comment about Evinrude inventing the Outboard which as we know it today, was invented by someone else but your right if we are going down the electric route!But im sure there was a German chap who made an electric boat 30 years before that though. Internet too slow too look but anyway

[Bigmuz7]

Nout to do with the original thread fellas ?

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

Nout to do with the original thread fellas ?

yer reet, big fella. I'm just makin' sure the wee boy gets his facts straight. We wouldn't want him makin' a fool of himsel would we