Evinrude but no Johnson

The Beard · 19 October 2009, 03:18

I understand that Evinrude now only make 2-stroke motors and that Johnson don't make anything. It strikes me as odd that they should leave themselves with a big hole at the bottom end of the market, now partially filled by the new 25 and 30hp models. I think Johnson used to make some 4-strokes, especially in the low powered end and it does seem odd that BRP should let their competitors stitch up the 2 - 20hp sector. There still seem to be quite a few of this kind of Johnson outboard on 2nd hand boats so I'm assuming they are quite a good unit.

I wonder why the company has let this end of things go as there seem to be a hell of a lot of small engines being bought and it also means that if you have an Evinrude motor on your boat but want a small auxiliary then you have to go elsewhere, whereas all the other makers seem to have a complete range.

Is there no money to be made down there? I think some of the "names" actually have these small motors made by other firms.

Enlighten me please.

Locozodiac · 19 October 2009, 17:36

For what have heard, the idea is to turn small portable 2 strokes models into Etecs in the long run and stay with those highly commercial, so not have so many HP close to each other.

Happy Boating

Downhilldai · 19 October 2009, 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Beard

I think some of the "names" actually have these small motors made by other firms.

Enlighten me please.

The small 4-stroke Johnsons are Soozooks in white paint with yank stickers.
Older 4-stroke Evinrudes were also Soozooks.

Chris · 19 October 2009, 21:10

There is a smaller 10/15hp e-tec on the cards however I don't think we will see it for at least 18 mths

matt h · 19 October 2009, 22:24

looking at all the above info, what a bastardised (not sure about the spelling) engine, Chris, when you gonna buy a proper engine, with a bit of pedigree??

something lile a yam 90 or optimax!!

Locozodiac · 20 October 2009, 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

There is a smaller 10/15hp e-tec on the cards however I don't think we will see it for at least 18 mths

The smallest ones you can buy right now are 25 & 30 HP Etec's, probably will see 5/10/15 in near future.

Happy Boating

Cookee · 20 October 2009, 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downhilldai

The small 4-stroke Johnsons are Soozooks in white paint with yank stickers.
Older 4-stroke Evinrudes were also Soozooks.

I know for a fact the Johnson and Suzuki 140 four strokes are identical

Chris · 20 October 2009, 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt h

looking at all the above info, what a bastardised (not sure about the spelling) engine, Chris, when you gonna buy a proper engine, with a bit of pedigree??

something lile a yam 90 or optimax!!

Hmmm there are 3 blown Optis on a pallet in my boat shed at the moment waiting to be broken for parts. Think I might give the Opti a miss

BTW if anyone needs any Opti parts then I am well be able to help!

As for a Yamaha 90 coal fired eco disaster I will leave that to those of you who seem to be stuck in the 90's

The Beard · 20 October 2009, 18:51

Thanks for your replies Chaps (and Chapesses?). The possiblity of a 15/20 hp (and smaller)motor makes sense as there seem to be an awful lot of these types advertised in the magazines. I did wonder whether the cost of developing an outboard that sells for hundreds instead of thousands is probably not a lot less than for the bigger ones so sharing between manufacturers makes sense. After all, the Cummins B series bears more than a passing resemblance to the similar size IVECO and Vauxhall/Opel/Saab/Cadillac use the 1.3, 1.9 and 2.0 FIAT diesels and Alfa Romeo use the 2.2 and 3.2 GM petrol engines so it makes sense I suppose.

What perhaps surprised me was that seeing that Evinrude is part of Bombardier and they make quite a few 4 stroke engines, they didn't take the chance to do a Mercury/Mariner and have both 2 and 4 stroke motors, for instance with Evinrude doing the 2 strokes and Johnson the 4s.

There is a display ad. in some of the boat magazines for Sorcerer boats which shows a RIB with a big white Johnson (oo-er Missus) which bears more than a passing resemblance to a Suzuki so that sounds about right.

Downhilldai · 20 October 2009, 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Beard

What perhaps surprised me was that seeing that Evinrude is part of Bombardier and they make quite a few 4 stroke engines, they didn't take the chance to do a Mercury/Mariner and have both 2 and 4 stroke motors, for instance with Evinrude doing the 2 strokes and Johnson the 4s.

Are you suggesting that Mariner and Mercury make all their own engines?

9D280 · 21 October 2009, 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Beard

I did wonder whether the cost of developing an outboard that sells for hundreds instead of thousands is probably not a lot less than for the bigger ones

Nail. Head.

They all need designed, they all need tested, they all need marketed. The materials to actually maufacture them are a relatively small proportion of the overall cost of getting one to the dealers. Same with cars - the development cost for a Punto is not too far different to that of a 7 series Beamer.....

It's been going on for years - I have a '72 vintage top end of a Johnson bolted to an Evenrude leg..... My aux ('79 ish vintage) can be traced back to the late 60s with various paint jobs.

Then there's the 2/2.5/3/3.5 Hp one in the plastic wrap case that I think has carried pretty much everyone's badge.....

tsnando · 22 October 2009, 14:12

Hello
Johnson quit because Suzuki quit suppling outboards to BRP, They had a supply contract that Suzuki did not want to renew it! BRP don,t produce 4 stroke outboards!
Mercury/Mariner have a few yamaha outboard blocks, with different HP.The lower leg is mercury not yamaha.
The 90 thru 115 hp mercury is one example.

Locozodiac · 22 October 2009, 17:38

Suzuki plans in some countries that don't have their dealer representation, to sell outboard engines to clients along with their cars. Tohatsu is currently producing core parts for different Mercury/Mariner engines, they have a joint venture at their new Komagane factory in Japan.

Happy Boating

The Beard · 23 October 2009, 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downhilldai

Are you suggesting that Mariner and Mercury make all their own engines?

Well.....In this day and age it would appear not, but it would seem that the outboard makers seem to have got a jump on many other parts of manufacturing.

Certain large automotive groups have been doing it for a while, for instance Chevrolet (US)/ Oldsmobile/Pontiac/Buick/Cadillac, Ford/Lincoln/Mercury, but it's only really in the last 10 years that we've had the Ford/Peugeot and FIAT/GM tie-ups.

While looking at some outboards a few months ago I was looking at Tohatsus and was told by the guy in the shop that the lower part of a Tohatsu was the same as that on a 10 year old Mercury he'd once owned and that there had been connections with Nissan and that there was a tie up between Force and Chrysler. Bl**dy 'ell that must have been a while ago, so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised although I did think that the bigger ones would have been "home grown."

The Beard · 23 October 2009, 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsnando

Hello
Johnson quit because Suzuki quit suppling outboards to BRP, They had a supply contract that Suzuki did not want to renew it! BRP don,t produce 4 stroke outboards!
Mercury/Mariner have a few yamaha outboard blocks, with different HP.The lower leg is mercury not yamaha.
The 90 thru 115 hp mercury is one example.

There's an awful lot about this industry I don't know. Thanks everybody for your input.