Four strokes - Page 2

RIVA · 07 December 2006, 17:44

i bet everybody sat at the other engine seminars did as well, but its independent and they all supply the info to each other

Top banana · 07 December 2006, 20:33

320 hrs suzuki df 140 2005 no problems at all

mike · 07 December 2006, 22:58

when I was at the southampton boat show the suzuki chap told me an owner could get the package especially if they were commercial. Given your ability to pop out and drive it to a dealer I'm sure they would let you have some (price was mentioned as I recall and it was a few hundred) they seem V keen to get as many units out and it may be worth pointing out the advantages of having one of their units down there.

I have found the ability to discuss the few queries I have had reassuring

For the record Yam also excellent on the phone.

jyasaki · 08 December 2006, 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike

For the record Yam also excellent on the phone.

That's not the general consensus here in the States. Then again, that is second-hand, as I've never had reason to call them.

Honda, on the other hand, was very responsive (if not very helpful) when I called to inquire about drilling holes in the cav plate.

jky

fast fred · 11 December 2006, 14:01

most of the New ones, like the Yamaha 115f, even the Etecs, you "talk" to the "brain" with its tach and warning lights. it comunicates any problems to the tec.

soft ware to change the Fuel curve, not sure this is what you guys need for what your lookin to do. change the fuel curve, milage most likely goes down, HP
would prob' go up.

jyasaki · 11 December 2006, 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by fast fred

most of the New ones, like the Yamaha 115f, even the Etecs, you "talk" to the "brain" with its tach and warning lights. it comunicates any problems to the tec.

Yes, they have a computer interface which translates faults to error codes. The codes are readable from a properly interfaced PC (or other device) so you can see what kind of error was detected. There are some other displays that are available through that as well, for instance, ignition timing, and, as Codders alluded to, parameters for setting up fuel system pressures, things like that.

Nothing you'd need for routine maintenance, though; more of a setup/troubleshooting thing, as far as I'm aware.

Quote:

soft ware to change the Fuel curve, not sure this is what you guys need for what your lookin to do. change the fuel curve, milage most likely goes down, HP would prob' go up.

Maybe. In any event, your warranty would go out the window, so it's probably not something to go mucking around with unless you a) really know what you're doing, and b) can handle anything that goes wrong without manufacturer's assistance.

jky

BogMonster · 23 December 2006, 23:22

Just to add to this, we get a lot of cruise ships in here at this time of year and many of the smallers ones use Zodiacs for ferrying passengers ashore. I've therefore taken a close interest over the last few weeks in what power they choose as in that business you don't want reliability problems with a boatload of litigation hungry American tourists. It confirmed my previous thought that without exception they are ALL (several different companies and boats) using Yamaha 4 strokes, seem to be 40s or 60s. Got to be a good recommendation I reckon, if they all came to the same conclusion

Biggles · 23 December 2006, 23:25

Nothing wrong with Four Strokes. The car world managed to work that one out years ago. Unless you want an East german Trabant

For all thats said if two strokes were that good you'd at least see some two stroke cars.

I can't remember the last time I saw one. Oh yes a Polish bloke at my Fathers work in the late 60's had a smelly, crap skoda.

fast fred · 25 December 2006, 11:44

thinkin half the Weight and twice the Power had and still has a big bunch to do with it.

BogMonster · 25 December 2006, 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by fast fred

thinkin half the Weight and twice the Power had and still has a big bunch to do with it.

If you can tell me where to get a 2 stroke that is less than 100kg and produces 230hp I'll be off to buy one immediately

fast fred · 25 December 2006, 13:29

that statement is part of the idea of the 2 stroke, cuzz the outboard has a bracket , a foot and a mid section ect. the full statement does not come out like that.

could make 115hp at a 100kg and less,

could build 230hp @ 100kg , but user friendly, more like miss-be-haven.

jyasaki · 25 December 2006, 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by fast fred

thinkin half the Weight and twice the Power had and still has a big bunch to do with it.

Big bunch to do with what?

Honda BF225 4S: 588 lbs
Suzuki 225 4S: 470 lbs
Yamaha F225: 583 lbs

Merc Opti 225: 497 lbs
Yamaha Vmax Opti 225: 539 lbs
Evinrude HO E-tec 225: 509 lbs

I see neither half the weight, nor twice the power; most certainly not both together.

jky

codprawn · 25 December 2006, 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyasaki

Big bunch to do with what?

Honda BF225 4S: 588 lbs
Suzuki 225 4S: 470 lbs
Yamaha F225: 583 lbs

Merc Opti 225: 497 lbs
Yamaha Vmax Opti 225: 539 lbs
Evinrude HO E-tec 225: 509 lbs

I see neither half the weight, nor twice the power; most certainly not both together.

jky

Where did you get 470lbs for the 4 stroke suzuki? - it's more like 580lbs.

My suzuki 225 2 stroke weighs 470lbs!!!

The new Mercury 300hp 2 stroke weighs 517lbs against the Verado 275 at 650lbs.

fast fred · 26 December 2006, 12:06

hows about a 2.5 OS Horn Moda, 440lbs 312hp@9500rpm.
once again they All have a foot and a bracket ect.

BogMonster · 26 December 2006, 13:22

Guess that is hardly a mainstream motor though?

Going on the weight of what I am interested in (115hp), you're talking 190-ish kilos for a four stroke and the Johnson I have weighs about 150 so that's about a 25 percent weight saving with the 2 stroke, but I would rather have a 4 stroke that runs like a sewing machine and burns less fuel, and carry an extra 1/2 person around for that privilege

I wouldn't completely rule out one of the new generation 2 strokes but it does seem that people that want reliability (i.e. commercial operator) go for 4 stroke every time and reliability is my main priority given the remoteness from anybody who knows what to do with a modern engine if it breaks!

Edited to say that according to the makers the Opti 115 and Etec 115 both tip the scales at 170 kg so the difference is only the weight of a full jerry can when you compare modern engines

fast fred · 26 December 2006, 13:26

could stack two 2.5 power heads on the same tower for 624hp @ about the same as the Honda, the Honda 225hp, Oink

pathalla · 26 December 2006, 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by fast fred

could stack two 2.5 power heads on the same tower for 624hp @ about the same as the Honda, the Honda 225hp, Oink

Now that would be interesting!

fast fred · 26 December 2006, 16:28

Bet it's been done, think they were side by sides, the gear box to bring the cranks to the shaft would add mo weight, so stackin them would keep the lbs down.

jyasaki · 26 December 2006, 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

Where did you get 470lbs for the 4 stroke suzuki? - it's more like 580lbs.

Off the Suzuki website.

Quote:

The new Mercury 300hp 2 stroke weighs 517lbs against the Verado 275 at 650lbs.

And that is a factor of 2 in what regard?

jky

codprawn · 26 December 2006, 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyasaki

Off the Suzuki website.

And that is a factor of 2 in what regard?

jky

You picked up the info for the DT225 not the DF225......

And I never mentioned a factor of 2!!!

Still a good weight saving with the 2 strokes - especially if you have 2 hanging off the back. As to fuel economy everyone said my DT225 would be very thirsty - I seem to get the same figures as the people with the 4 strokes .