Fuel and spares

[BruceB]

Just as a quick query after being told by engine fitters that these are known issues, has anybody had these problems?

Fuel - outboards not running when fuel is more than a few weeks old if they are fuel injected? I can understand months or years old fuel but a few weeks?
Suzuki spares availability- ie none or very poor? Parts taking months to trun up?

I had never heard of either issue before but am assured they are true, had a carb engine before and never had a Suzuki so neither affected me before and I am curious if it is nothing more than scare stories or b*l*hit.

[Cypman]

Bruce,
Suzuki spares are readily available (and much cheaper!!!) from Brownspoint Marine in USA. Orders accepted on internet and delivery usually speedy

[Rooster21]

Recently used a suzuki 140 with fuel that has been in its tank since at least last October 2007. With No probs.

I ve not found availability on parts a problem. Never in Stock!! Next day normally.
Its the price they want.
Compared to the likes of Brownspoint inc delivery.

Always check to see if theres any warranty left too. Worth going into the dealer and get them to check.

One thing I found out about the DF140 and others in the DF range, is that they brake the trim sender levers! Some how. You require the complete sender, cannot buy just the arm. £108.00.

Maybe someone can tell me why they brake and if there is a solution.

[Jimmy C]

I run a Dt65 suzuki and have bought bits from Brownspoint USA, i think their system is excellent, but it can be, and feel like a false economy. Shipping is 60 dollars plus regardless of order size, and then mr taxman likes to add on his fair share. I haven't found out how much it would have cost me to buy all the bits i did in the UK, but i'm not sure how cheap it would work out to be 'all in'.

That said, if you could do a joint order and share shipping? That might then work out quite well.

Jimmy

[BruceB]

I am aware of Brownspoint and have ordered bits from them before.
The stories I have been told (and more and more I suspect these are stories) is that UK supplies of Suzuki parts are non existent and they won't run on anything bar absolutely fresh fuel.
I have my reasons why I suspect I am being fed a line of b***t relating to this particular dealer but rather than dismiss them out of hand I thought if I would ask and see if there is any truth in either of the stories, something I suspect there isn't.

[Nasher]

I've struggled in the past few years to find Suzuki spares locally.
the outboard centre in Fareham used to keep quite a bit in stock at a reasonable(ish) price, but they moved to Southampton a couple of years ago.

My only local dealer now is Home marine in Emsworth who are friendly and helpful, but working out of little more than a shed in the marina limits the amount of parts they keep in, so everything needs to be ordered.

When I was working further away from home I could stop off at Pacer marine on the way South, they were very good, but I felt a little more expensive.

I've not used Brownspoint but will probably try them one day.

As for Suzukis being less tolerant of stale fuel, I've not noticed it.
My current DT200EFI regularly drinks 1 or 2 month old fuel, admittedly mixed with some fresh, and my old DT55 and 40 often used the remains of last summers fuel when used for the first time in April or May.

I can't specificaly comment on the 4 Strokes because I've not had one.

Nasher

[BruceB]

The engines mentioned were all fs injection engines and Suzukis in particular. Anything over 4-6 weeks old fuel made any injection engine run very poorly wwas the actual observation made.
I can't see it myself as there would be nothing but compliants from just about everyone on here about poor running outboards, whose fuel is always brand new?

[Cypman]

Sorry, forgot to comment on the fuel question. My DF140 always ran perfectly, often on fuel that was 3+ months old. The only point I would make is that I tended to top up with 98 octane instesd of 95 octane fuel.

[David G]

I get Suzuki parts from these people in the UK.

Always seem to be reasonably quick.

Don't know how the price compares with "All-in" (Tax, duty, etc etc) from USA.

http://www.imsupplies.co.uk/home.php

esales@imsupplies.co.uk

Chris is the person there that I have dealt with.

Cheers,

Orve.

[Erin]

My local supplier has never had any difficulty in getting hold of spares. So I don't see any problem with that. I also never had any issues with old fuel etc. The only thing I do know is that they are very sensitive to having good spark plugs. I had a rough running issue which was resolved by replacing the plugs. I think you've been fed a little bit of fiction.

[ian parkes]

never an issue with the df 70 i had . All service parts were on the shelf , and chances are thats all you will need unless its getting old .
The fuel story is total bull

[9D280]

Fuel - The only thign that's going to stop fuel being injected (well, ignoring electrical failures!) is if it has some icky sticky goop or debris mixed in. Injectors (Well, certainly Bosch & Magneti Marelli) have a super fine filter in the injector itself that makes the inline filters look like fishing net! If that totally blocks you're knackered, but itl;s way more thean the cross section required to feed the squirty bit, and the engine fuel filter usually catches anyhing that's going to cause a problem. As you are fuel injected there will be no oil inside the fuel system to turn "gloopy".
As for the fuel breaking down I've run (carb'ed) engines on premix fuel that was at least 2 years sat in a tank (I did shake it first!)...... Yeah it smoked a bot, but then the fuel part will have evaporated more than the oil. Apart from that, it ran fine.

Let's face it, if fuel went off in a fortnight, nobody in any rural area coud run a petrol enfgine and just think - you could only go on a weeks's holiday!!!!! I think I smell some bovine droppings on that one....

As for Suz Spares, my old DT25 was never a problem. As I think I know who your local dealer may be, I will not mention names but if they are the same place I used I've never had a problem or sharp intake of breath with the prices. Granted half the spares I ordered came form his breaker's bin, but even the new stuff was never a problem / any more expensive than anywhere else.

I've also used Mitchell Outboard Serv's in Glasgow for spares. Had a set of gaskets land on the doormat the day after I phoned (for the Suz), Yam bits for the current lump took a bit longer, but I was looking for some obscure bits for an ancient engine so I wasn't entirely surprised at the wait.

[Rooster21]

Did a little exercise on Brownspoint.
For a trim sender delivered.
Came to $144.00 inc delivery.

That equates to £75@ $1.90/£

Dealer quoted me £108.00 that makes Brownspoint about 30% cheaper.

Not withstanding customs/Parcel force charges if they get applied.

Ive never had them applied on sub $300 orders "yet".

Worth working out in my book.

[Jimmy C]

You will be a lucky bugger to avoid customs charges and handling charges!
My last load from Brownspoint was just less than $500 including the postage and packing, then i got stung for an £8 handling fee, £50 odd quid of VAT, and a £6 customs charge!

As i said on the post (~#2) it still worked out cheaper in the end, but not by 30% i dont think!

Oh well, May give it a go if i can sneak things through as long as they are less than $300!!

Jimmy

[bernithebiker]

Gasoline can and does go stale, it does not last indefinitely. All gasoline sold in Europe has oxydation stability as part of it's specification. This gives you a reasonable guarantee of it's stability, and so should last at least 4 weeks with no problems.

However, there are several factors you should be aware of;

1. High temperatures - will accelerate oxydation and degradation
2. Strong sunlight - the same
3. Bear in mind that your gasoline may not have come straight from the refinery. Traders often store gasoline for many months in tank farms to take advantage of market conditions (higher forward prices), so the gasoline that you receive may already be 6 months old. It will have been tested when it comes out of the tank, but if it fails the oxydation stability test, it will simply have more additive applied to it. The efficacity of such additives can decline with frequent application.
4. The more the gasoline has been 'cracked' at the refinery, the more it tends to be unstable. Therefore, gasoline from simpler refineries will be more stable than that from more complex ones.
5. Some cargoes of gasoline only just meet the oxy stability test, others are well within.

What happens when it oxidises and why is it a problem? Upoin oxydation, deposits can form, and gums and varnishs can appear in the tank, in the lines and in the carbs/injectors. These will obviously cause issues with engine running.

Personally, I now stabilise all my gasoline for safety's sake (for garden machinery and boats). I have had some problems in the past which I put down to old gasoline.

Also, a separate issue is the Reid Vapour Pressure of the gasoline, again part of the specification. This is a measure of how volatile the gasoline is. It is higher in winter than in summer. Over time, volatility will decrease (the hiss you hear when opening a can is the lighter, more volatile fractions escaping). If you have old summer gasoline, that you try to use in winter you may have problems.