Fuel Suppliers

[werdna87]

Hi everyone,

I was wondering if anyone could comment on how they fuel their rib?

Specifically diesel operators.

My issue is that I have a 400 ltr tank , England and Wales has red diesel at around 50-60p a liter where as in my local marina its almost the same as the fourcourt.

Can anyone comment on the ability to buy red diesel ? Is it only cars/vans that it's illegal ?

Many thanks !!

[A1an]

Our local BP depot will fill 45 glln drums if you leave them with them.

Failing that you could fill a kerosene tank at home and decant it at your leisure.

Bit of a PITA double handling but hey ho.

[Poly]

Here is some background: http://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-advi...ed-diesel.aspx

Yes you can legally buy red. However, technically you should be paying the extra duty on it for any fuel used in propulsion. If it's an open rib presumably that is all of it? hMRC have been pretty clear they have bigger fish to fry, so if you buy it at a marina they aren't going to question the "standard " heating/engine split yachties claim. If you start buying it direct, and don't have any other use it might just get some interest at some point (and they don't have a gentle touch once they think you are scamming them).

Many marinas do sell red. Smaller harbours with a fishing fleet are likely to have red, but it's not always a manned fuel barge you can just turn up to (you may need to prearranged with the harbour master or the fuel company to bring a tanker)

Heating kerosene and diesel are not quite the same thing but many older Diesel engines won't notice. As it's not intended to go through a delicate engine though you might not have any recourse if the quality is crap and you damage injectors or block filters.

[A1an]

I was always under the impression that kerosene didn't have enough lubricant in it for engine use? Additional oil has to be added.

[willk]

I'm running a comparable rig to the OP. There are three "fuels" you can burn:

1. Road legal diesel aka "white" diesel. If you are running a leisure craft then technically this is what they want you to run.
2. Red diesel for plant use - low sulphur content - you will be offered this at marinas and fishing quays - but expected to declare usage and pay the tax element as discussed above.
3. Red diesel for heating - sometimes called Marked Gas Oil and frequently has a highish sulphur content.

You can't successfully run a modern diesel on kero - as Alan says it has lower lubricity than diesel and has a lower energy release. Diesel fuel pumps are lubricated by the diesel

I carry fuel to mine in 25l drums. With a 450L+ tank, I can generally manage with top-ups of 4-6 cans a day which slowly replenishes fuel used on multi-day trips. You might consider a storage tank somewhere and bulk buy low sulphur MGO. If you are purely leisure, a few fills a year from the marina will be good for the "optics".

If you DO store your own fuel - consider adding diesel bug treatment before each delivery and keep an eye on the "dregs" in the cans after filling.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by A1an

I was always under the impression that kerosene didn't have enough lubricant in it for engine use? Additional oil has to be added.

Apologies I am mixing my kerosene and MGO, as Willk has helpfully corrected.

[paintman]

Originally Posted by Poly

Here is some background: Red Diesel | Regulations | Knowledge & Advice | Knowledge & Advice | RYA

Yes you can legally buy red. However, technically you should be paying the extra duty on it for any fuel used in propulsion. If it's an open rib presumably that is all of it? hMRC have been pretty clear they have bigger fish to fry, so if you buy it at a marina they aren't going to question the "standard " heating/engine split yachties claim. If you start buying it direct, and don't have any other use it might just get some interest at some point (and they don't have a gentle touch once they think you are scamming them).

No 'technically' about it. If used for propulsion duty must be paid at the full rate.

They definitely don't have a gentle touch about enforcement. When we test dipped a 'traveller's' vehicle tank & found red we'd call the local Customs & Excise who would turn up, dip the tank & use a test kit. If the result was positive the driver would be given the choice of paying there & then an arbitrary figure worked out by C&E or the vehicle would be seized & impounded. If the owner then paid the amount plus any impound fees they could have it back. If not C&E would sell it.
Not unusual now to find them at VoSa roadside checks.

If they do ever decide to start checking pleasure/leisure boats that don't have heating systems I can see a lot of tears before bedtime!

[A1an]

Cant even have a bit of fun but the government want to tax the arse out of it.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by paintman

If they do ever decide to start checking pleasure/leisure boats that don't have heating systems I can see a lot of tears before bedtime!

Yes, although you can quite legitimately have red in your BOAT tank so long as you have paid the extra duty (and keeping paper receipts dry on an open boat will be challenging).

I did read recently that the Belgians were being particularly difficult with cross channel boats much to the consternation of the wafi's they stopped. Presumably they had ignored the bit they sign on the receipt for red - declaring that it was only permitted in UK waters!

[willk]

Originally Posted by Poly

Yes, although you can quite legitimately have red in your BOAT tank so long as you have paid the extra duty (and keeping paper receipts dry on an open boat will be challenging).

I find it best not to argue the point with bizzies, or indeed tell them anything. If you can trouser their notebook, it can be a huge advantage later....