Help. Engine stopped with a nasty smell!

[alystra]

Merc 90 4str year 2000. Carbs. (It's the Yamaha block)

Bowling down the Sound of Jura, I was, when suddenly it was silent. Kill switch I thought, but it was connected. Plenty of fuel. Turned the key, absolutely dead. No instrument movement, the rev counter still stuck at 3600, my cruising speed. A foul smell of burnt insulation (like when a hand held tool burns out its motor) came from the air intake. I reckoned this was pretty terminal. What I did next is another story.

Later I had a look. Nothing really obvious, but the smell was still there, a bit around the flywheel and more around the ECU and rectifier?? on the front of the engine. . I also recalled that smell last time out, but so faint I wasn't sure if it was real.

In view of a recent thread on battery isolating switches, I'm thinking there's a problem with that or the main cabling from battery to engine. Guessing that there was a break in continuity or high resistance which has burnt something out in the charging system. Could this be true?

Anyone with experience of these engines got any thoughts as to where I should look first? (apart from the battery isolator). Charging coils? Rectifier thingy? ECU? Somewhere else?

The absolute deadness is symtomatic of blown fuses according to the manual. I need to tilt the engine up. Is there a way to do that directly by connecting another battery to the tilt relay terminals? Would it be safe to replace any blown fuses provided I don't start the engine?

Any good guidance appreciated.

[9D280]

Alystra,

Could you not tilt up manually using the release screw probably located thro' a hole in one of your clamp brackets?

I'm not fully clued up about these partcular machines, but there's a load of "high level" tests you could do which will work on any outboard:

Burning plastic smells doesn't sound like a fuse. I guess if it's ECU powered a dealer should be able to plug in a laptop & see what it thinks has died? Problem if you've burnt a charging coil out is that you'll need to remove the flywheel to get at it, however if you disconnect the cables & park an ohmmeter across them, you'll find out quick enough if the coils are open or short circuit.

Is your tacho a "traditional" one hanging off the coil side of the rectifier (the wires you disconnected above), or is it driven from the ECU? If your ECU is firing out a 3600 rpm signal when the engine is clearly not turning, coupled with the smell eminating from there you may have fried it? Does the tach drop to zero when you power off (batt switch), and after off- on does it go back to 3600?

I'd suggest poke the charge coils with an ohhmmeter (disconnect them first) then the battery cables at the engine with an accurate voltmeter. Then disconnect the tacho signal wire & try powering up - does the tacho show 3600 in all combination of power / signal wire - that might narrow it down - if it only shows 3600 powered up with the signal wire connected, my money would be on the ECU..... If it does it with power only, something weird is going on in the tacho. If it still shows 3.6K with the power off, your tach is likely mechanically gubbed!


Hope this helps, let us know what you find.

[jambo]

Tony sorry to hear of your trouble hope you got home without to much hassle!?
Eddie Crossan at Balloch is your nearest mercury man I have always found him very helpful over the phone, worth a try.
Cheers hope you get fixed up soon. I am heading up for a few days on Sun can wait for my three week spell end July/Aug.
Hope to see you on the water soon take care,
J

[Poly]

Hopefully it turns out to be something easy enough to fix cheaply/quickly, as the weather up there must be perfect right now.

Originally Posted by alystra

I reckoned this was pretty terminal. What I did next is another story.

I'm looking forward to this... ...it will be thoroughly disappointing if you started the aux first time, made good speed to a safe haven and retired with a few beers... ...so make sure you build some drama into it!

[jambo]

I'm looking forward to this... ...it will be thoroughly disappointing if you started the aux first time, made good speed to a safe haven and retired with a few beers... ...so make sure you build some drama into it! [/QUOTE]

Me too Tony come on spill the beans!!
J

[alystra]

Originally Posted by 9D280

Alystra,

Could you not tilt up manually using the release screw probably located thro' a hole in one of your clamp brackets?

I'm not fully clued up about these partcular machines, but there's a load of "high level" tests you could do which will work on any outboard:

Burning plastic smells doesn't sound like a fuse. I guess if it's ECU powered a dealer should be able to plug in a laptop & see what it thinks has died? Problem if you've burnt a charging coil out is that you'll need to remove the flywheel to get at it, however if you disconnect the cables & park an ohmmeter across them, you'll find out quick enough if the coils are open or short circuit.

Is your tacho a "traditional" one hanging off the coil side of the rectifier (the wires you disconnected above), or is it driven from the ECU? If your ECU is firing out a 3600 rpm signal when the engine is clearly not turning, coupled with the smell eminating from there you may have fried it? Does the tach drop to zero when you power off (batt switch), and after off- on does it go back to 3600?

I'd suggest poke the charge coils with an ohhmmeter (disconnect them first) then the battery cables at the engine with an accurate voltmeter. Then disconnect the tacho signal wire & try powering up - does the tacho show 3600 in all combination of power / signal wire - that might narrow it down - if it only shows 3600 powered up with the signal wire connected, my money would be on the ECU..... If it does it with power only, something weird is going on in the tacho. If it still shows 3.6K with the power off, your tach is likely mechanically gubbed!


Hope this helps, let us know what you find.

Many thanks for the thoughts,9D280. Just had a very good look after a few hours reading the manual. All the wiring and connections seem in excellent condition. There are no joins in the main battery cables from the console to the engine. Voltage at the engine ends is perfect.

Did a resistance test on the charging coils - perfect.
Tested connections from remote control to ECU. perfect.

The 30 amp fuse had blown. The 20 amp was ok. Either one failing creates the symptoms I have.

There was no point in testing the Rectifier/Regulator, as a poke around the the back of it revealed that it was toast.

Main concern is what made it fail. Age (9 years)? Bad connection? The only change to the system since last year is a new battery. Do rectifier/regulators just die sometimes?

More concerning is that a new rectifier is listed as POA . Whatever caused the problem, I need another one.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by alystra

More concerning is that a new rectifier is listed as POA . Whatever caused the problem, I need another one.

are the o/board specific or is there a car motorbike equivalent somewhere for a price they are not too embarrassed to publish?

[eilean mor]

hope its not too time consuming or expensive - saw the boat with the engine cover off this afternoon as I was trailering in, but couldnt see you or I'd have stopped by, - if you need any 'bits' picked up, I'm in and out of Glasgow/ Edinburgh over the next week,

and please share about the trip home, as my aux is about the same size as yours, -


oh, and I saw the dolphins in oban bay when passing through there earlier this week at 2330, they came alongside as we cruised thro

[Jizm]

Originally Posted by Polwart

are the o/board specific or is there a car motorbike equivalent somewhere for a price they are not too embarrassed to publish?

Quite likely, I may be able to help if it's bike based...

[Marinautic]

Originally Posted by alystra

More concerning is that a new rectifier is listed as POA . Whatever caused the problem, I need another one.

As a mercury part it's listed as NLA, obsolete item!!

[alystra]

Many thanks for all the suggestions and support guys. Marinautic, I found out it was obsolete last night. Last thing I did before turning in was to look at the Honda website. £8.5 odd K for a new 90hp. (Mercury? If they're no longer supporting a nine year old engine, they can get stuffed.)

I've had excellent dealings with RIBS Marine, where I get the Mercury catalogue, and in view of the POA gave them a call. Obsolete, none in stock, even in Belgium. No updated part number. Leanne did her best, was reallly helpful, then sympathetic. Had it come to looking on ebay for something old or fake? But no, she suggested Hank at American Marine 01789491643. I called.

Turns out they're all frying to a crisp - dozens of them of all sizes (of a certain age). The updates have come so thick and fast they've overtaken the catalogue. Hank has a special connection direct to the factory in the US. The replacement rectifier/regulator comes as a kit with a whole load of new gubbins. Sounds like a major redesign. Of course, it's not cheap - probably no change out of £350 odd or more. Still cheaper than a new engine.

The part will be put in a container direct from the factory first thing Monday and be here by the following week. Can't be bad. Hank was very helpful indeed. So, if you need some Mercury parts, give him a call at American Marine.

I shall sleep well tonight.

[jambo]

Tony glad you got fixed up, I share your sentiments re Mercury had the same sort of bother last year with their other half Mariner barrus are not very helful as a company.
Anyway what abou your story now that you are relaxed?
:Cheers:
Billy

[Bigmuz7]

Originally Posted by jambo

had the same sort of bother last year with their other half Mariner barrus are not very helful as a company.

That wasn't my experience ,.. I was quite impressed with them Billy .. found their tech guys very helpful if a little hard to get hold of sometimes.

Originally Posted by alystra

I shall sleep well tonight.

Good stuff Always feels good after a bit of research saves a few bob doesnt it ?

The thing I hate is when the manufacturers wont admit to problems, and you have to turn detective to expose them, and/or find a supplier who is friendly/knowledgeable enough to help with a solution .. even if he is miles away

Anyway,.. I hope thats the job done and good of you to post such issues so other peeps get the benefit of your experience

[jambo]

Bigmuz
on reflection you are right re the tech guys but the company itself is not very flexible in relation to their retun policy which does not go well for someone stranded out on the Sound of Jura waiting for a part and keep sending the wrong part three times last summer laid up for 4 weeks!! Then charged me 25% retun fee, not impresse and will ot use them again for spares if I can helpit.

Billy

[Dirk Diggler]

Originally Posted by jambo

Bigmuz
on reflection you are right re the tech guys but the company itself is not very flexible in relation to their retun policy which does not go well for someone stranded out on the Sound of Jura waiting for a part and keep sending the wrong part three times last summer laid up for 4 weeks!! Then charged me 25% retun fee, not impresse and will ot use them again for spares if I can helpit.

Billy

If your buying direct from Barrus, you must be in the trade, if your getting wrong parts it must be coz your ordering them wrong. Never had a problem with them myself.

[jambo]

Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler

If your buying direct from Barrus, you must be in the trade, if your getting wrong parts it must be coz your ordering them wrong. Never had a problem with them myself.

Dirk take your finger of the trigger!! Nowhere in my post did I say I had ordered direct from Barrus. I did in fact order thru their main agent and they sent me two wrong parts. It was like a bad Xmas waiting for a parcel and when it eventually comes its all wrong the delays cost me 4 weeks laid up last summer. Their express service took a week to arrive and then they had the cheek to charge 25% retun fees. Anyway that was last year and we did eventually get it all sorted but not by barrus I eventually fitted a non mariner part and it was fine with less hassle.
Anyway happy boating heres to a good summer on the water.

J

[alystra]

Sod it! Wrote a long post last night answering several peoples comments. Must have forgotten to press submit or something, 'cos it's not here. I'll try again.

9D280 Many thanks for the thoughts. The tacho thing was a bit of a red herring. A 'design feature' of the system is that the tacho stays at the revs it was at when the engine is switched off. To zero it one just turns the ignition on and off. I wasn't too keen on fiddling with the tilt release screw as it's several inches under the water when the boats at rest. I replaced a fuse and got the engine up ok.

Jambo Many thanks Billy. I didn't know about Eddie Crossan and I'll keep him in mind.

Polwart Looking at the connections I would imagine it's very much specific to this engine - but I could be wrong.

Eilean Mor '
hope its not too time consuming or expensive - saw the boat with the engine cover off this afternoon as I was trailering in, but couldnt see you or I'd have stopped by, - if you need any 'bits' picked up, I'm in and out of Glasgow/ Edinburgh over the next week,

Thanks Chris - I saw you, but was on my knees head down looking at the manual. Did you go for a float?

Bigmuz7 Many thanks. Trouble is, every supplier is miles away from here. The Yacht Centre used to be Merc agents, hence my choice of engine. Now it's do it myself as much as possible. Thank goodness it's carbs and comparatively minimal electronics.

Think that's it. Watch out for 'what happened next'.

[Davie]

I have one of these engines that ran the crank. Broke it for spares but still have loads of parts. Send me a phone number if you need anything ta Davie

[alystra]

Originally Posted by Davie

I have one of these engines that ran the crank. Broke it for spares but still have loads of parts. Send me a phone number if you need anything ta Davie

Thanks Davie, might be very useful. I'll make a note.

[alystra]

Well, here it is. The full unexpurgated story. I'll put it in Ribs and Ribbing too, if that's ok, for those who've not been following this.

As some of you might know, I potter about the waters of Nether Lorne, hiding away in nooks and crannies and spending nights at anchor with rib tent deployed. Last Monday was the start of a planned weeks cruise and I hoped to explore the west side of Jura. Sunday's weather had been awful and Monday's was not much better, but with a promised improvement in the afternoon and overnight it was time to go. I needed to get through Corryvreckan at slack water (just a few minutes at springs), so set off at 1600 Monday afternoon in light drizzle and viz of a mile or so and improving. By 1620 I was half way through the Gulf, visibility down to one cable with a steep building swell and westerly wind. If my timing was slightly wrong there may have been breakers ahead that I couldn't see. Enough, I turned and made for an anchorage on the east side of the island of Lunga.

Tuesday. Spent the day on Lunga, then through the Corry in the evening to explore a small bay called Uamh nan Gall, thinking I'd anchor for the night. Never having been there I sat ,just drifting for 15 mins or so, soaking up the atmosphere thinking of the forecast, the tidal gate of Corryvreckan and it didn't feel right this time - though I'm sure it would another day. So that's how I came to be crossing the Sound of Jura on a diagonal course towards the islands and bay south of Carsaig. The tide runs strongly here, 1.8 knots in the middle of the sound, but much faster close to the coast. The tidal stream seems to zig zag across the Sound and bounce off the shore just by Carsaig creating a strong flow and turmoil on the surface.

At 1840, half a mile west of Eilean Dubh, in the middle of the tidal whorls, the engine stopped.

After realising I wasn't going to get it going any time soon, I took stock. Calm sea, no danger from that. Home ten or more miles to the north. Tide setting south at quite a lick. I'm already south of the hamlet of Carsaig where there's a road if I need one, and drifting further into isolation. So, head towards Carsaig if I can. Get out of the tide, if I can and anchor for the night. If I can't beat the tide, the next bay south will be ok but more isolated. If the auxiliary won't start I can launch the dinghy and tow the rib (rowing) across tide and into that bay - or at least I can try. If that fails, well things would get more serious and I'd have to think again.

My BRP Evinrude 3.5hp aux is fitted on the transom. Getting to it isn't easy when the boat's in cruising mode. To be self sufficient for five days on a boat in this part of the world, you need a lot of kit and Moon Raker is not a large RIB. There's hardly a space on deck. The dinghy, in calm weather stowed athwartships and upside down, takes up all of the space between console and engine. (You'll get the idea from the picture). The trick is to slither over the bottom of the dinghy, hang on to the A frame and kneel on the tube right by the transom.

I usually take a very jaundiced view of that engine. Its shaft is too short, I'm not convinced of the strength of its mountings, and it's earsplittingly noisy, but it was new and a gift so there it is. In that swirling tide my gaze was rosy and warm as I lowered it into position, gave it a good shake to stir up the fuel (When did I fill it? How much is in the tank, I know it's not full? Where's my spare can? How much is in that? Did I put oil in it? How old is it?) turned on the tap and started to pull the string. Six pulls and at 1845 we were off in a short lived cloud of blue smoke. Before I engaged gear we were doing 2 knots away from the anchorage. Gradually speed decreased to zero then, nailbitingly slowly increased again, this time in the right direction. Half a knot, one knot, even one and a half at times in a favourable eddy, we crept northwards. I felt there'd be less tidal flow really close to the shore of Eilean Dubh, so slowly eased nearer, working the eddies where I could. We began to make headway.

Twenty minutes later we were just clear of the islet north of E. Dubh and heading north of E. Traighe and the tidal flow was easing and speed was 2.5 knots in the right direction. Only half a mile to go to the anchorage. What about fuel? Will it hold out? If we stop now we'll be back out in the Sound before I can refuel. Concentrate on getting there. Will the engine to keep going. These thoughts ran circles in my mind as we inched closer to the goal. And then we were east of Carsaig Island and I could move from my cramped position, and in 6 metres depth at 1925, let go the anchor onto firm sand. Phew! 1.2 miles over the ground in 40 minutes. Safe for the night, but not home. There was much to think about and things to do before then. The passage home would need some planning.

I checked the fuel left in the aux. just after we anchored. I couldn't see any! We had only just got there. The spare container was half full.

The morning forecast was E-SE 3 to 4 occ 5. Offshore, so there'd be little sea apart from that created by the big spring tide at the northern end of the Sound of Jura. Our goal was my mooring in Loch Craignish, a tad north of the yacht moorings. It's about 10.5 miles and our course would be parallel to the coast for most of the way. Though probably quite gusty, especially across the mouth of Loch Crinan, the wind wasn't likely to be a problem if I kept close inshore. The tide would be running north from midday onwards. Provided the little engine kept going there would be no hazards on the way. If it gave up the ghost (had I not praised it just the day before?), then the worst case would be to be blown out into the main tidal stream which, around a mile offshore, splits and sets more NW'ly towards the west side of the Sound - and on to the Gulf of Corryvreckan. If too far to the west when off Loch Crinan, then a trip through the Dorus Mhor would be likely. Refuelling, a necessity, would have to be quick and efficient.

My spare fuel for the aux. has always been carried in one of those green 5 litre containers. Don't know about you, but I find the spouts a sod to fit and they leak badly. Trying to fill a small outboard in an awkward position over the transom with one of those in any sort of sea is just too hard, even with a funnel. I wasn't sure that 5 litres, plus the 1.5l in the engine tank would be enough to get me home anyway. I needed more containers. Luckily, they were aboard. I carry my fresh water in used 1.5 litre fizzy water bottles, stowed in those plastic bottle holders the Co-op supply. How to get fuel into them from the main engine tank was a problem. At first I opened the drain of the water separator, but the flow was just too slow. Lacking any sort of syphon pump or pipe to get it from the filler, I had to pull the main fuel pipe off the separator. Gravity soon filled the bottles. I always have a bottle of two stroke oil with me for just such emergencies. Good job I had. Finally had 8 litres, two bottles and the can and 1.5 litres in the engine. Reckoned that may be enough.

I wasn't about to spend hours kneeling on the tubes holding the vibrating aux., but it needed some weight aft to keep its propellor deep enough. I moved everything I could as far aft as possible. I could then lock the aux steering and sit at the console to steer with the main engine.

At 1145 we set off northwards, making 3.3 knots at first with the tide. 1245 had to refuel. A doddle from the bottle using the funnel. No spillage, 2.9 miles. Under way again in two minutes. Exactly an hour later, off the southern tip of Island Macaskin, another 1.5 litres went in. 3.1 miles that time. After a stop at Gabhar Island for lunch and decant from can to bottle, just one more refill got us home. 5 hours including the stop. No events.

Things to remember.

If there's even a hint if a whiff of something unusual coming from the engine, find out what's wrong before charging off to one of the most isolated areas in the uk.

Around here it takes an hour for any help to arrive, so be prepared to help yourself.

Take an auxiliary engine. Even a small one can help get you out of trouble. Make sure it's full of fuel. Make sure your spare can is full. Make sure you can fill the outboard with it. Take some two stroke oil. Have a way of getting fuel from your main tank.

My 3.5 hp engine gave me 2.8 knots at threequarters throttle, with much ventilation of the propellor because it's not deep enough. It did 2 miles per litre. In rough water it's likely it won't be very effective, but it might be. I turned into the wind blowing out of Loch Crinan, a good F4, maybe more. The boat slowed down only a little, the propellor stopped ventilating and became more efficient and we kept going.

Don't panic. Think. Work it out. Don't give up.

Get as much information about the waters you are in as you possibly can, and carry most of it.

Have fun.

Cheers Tony