Help me understand how outdrives work!

Jacob555 · 07 December 2009, 21:40

Further to my post about small outdrive units (post 32679), I have been thinking about how or whether I can connect a Mercruiser Alpha 1 leg by chain drive to a motorcycle engine.

Having bought a leg I'm beginning to realise that the possibilities of connecting power to it may be much more complex than if it was a standard propshaft drive or a jetdrive with a simple propshaft coming out of it (which I am more used to).

Because I have not yet taken delivery of the sterndrive bits I'm trying to visualise exactly how stern drives work from static photos which is actually quite hard!

Is the chain drive thing possible? I see the alpha 1 has a splined shaft with a UJ coming out of it on the input side. How is this shaft supported at the engine crankshaft end? Does a Mercruiser engine have special stuff going on where its driveshaft comes out or can I support the free splined end of the leg's driveshaft in a wheel bearing and hub mounted on a strong spaceframe and simply weld a sprocket for my chain drive onto the leg's driveshaft somewhere in the middle between where it comes out of the leg and where it is supported in the bearing and frame? Would the driveshaft be adequately supported at the leg end for the increased lateral loading a sprocket and chain drive would put on it?

I think the crux of my question is: Does the driveshaft and universal joint I can see in pictures of these legs which comes out of the cylindrical casting in the back of the leg move anything other than round and round (with the engine) Or does it move in and out (on the splines) or up and down as the leg is trimmed up and down?

The other issue I suppose is whether when close coupled to its correct engine as Mr Mercruiser intended a sterndrive takes some of the propulsion load through the driveshaft or other components to the engine block, in effect pushes the boat along by its engine mounts and bearers rather than by its transom, so when you connect it by chain drive to an offset engine it could collapse or deform the transom under power and break something.

Worryingly I can't find any boats with mercruiser drives with non mercruiser engines attached to them, and certainly can't find any boats with mercruiser drives with long driveshafts coming out of them leading to engines which are further towards the bow or offset (ie., not close coupled).

Methinks I should have looked into this BEFORE buying an outdrive leg...

chewy · 07 December 2009, 22:05

You usually mount the engine directly to the splined shaft, this isn't supported on any additional mounts.
Usuing a chain drive with the engine offset will upset the balance of the boat. It probably will be possible but could be alot of hard work.
I can't remember the name of the drives but the engine is mounted with the shaft facing forwards then onto a chain which goes onto a propshaft.

Mollers · 07 December 2009, 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacob555

I have been thinking about how or whether I can connect a Mercruiser Alpha 1 leg by chain drive to a motorcycle engine.

Are you having a laugh?

No, a motorcycle engine will never be any good, it would never generate enough torque if HP. The smallest engine Mercruiser fit to that leg is a 3.7 ltr straight 6.

Also, direct alignment is critical.

chewy · 07 December 2009, 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mollers

Are you having a laugh?

No, a motorcycle engine will never be any good, it would never generate enough torque if HP. The smallest engine Mercruiser fit to that leg is a 3.7 ltr straight 6.

Also, direct alignment is critical.

That should do.

Bigmuz7 · 07 December 2009, 23:05

Give over .. I've had girlfriends that have had sex toys with bigger motors .. they were northerners right enough

.. can I say that on here ? .. northerners I mean ?

chewy · 07 December 2009, 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

Give over .. I've had girlfriends that have had sex toys with bigger motors .. they were northerners right enough

.. can I say that on here ? .. northerners I mean ?

Say what you want mate... everyone else does.

biffer · 08 December 2009, 08:34

mollers is half right, a motorbyke engine ain't got the torque or a flywheel, me and my brother have been down this road years back and although with a remote mounted engine the lineup isn't as important as what drive coupling you use you'll never get it to rev

Mollers · 08 December 2009, 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by biffer

mollers is half right, a motorbyke engine ain't got the torque or a flywheel, me and my brother have been down this road years back and although with a remote mounted engine the lineup isn't as important as what drive coupling you use you'll never get it to rev

Perhaps I should've said 'straight' alignment.
I had a 5.7ltr V8 on an Alhpa One leg. A tit dropped the lump in slightly out of alignment, it took out the all of the top end transmission bearings, £800 worth.

biffer · 08 December 2009, 09:15

that would be better, have a look at pics the gearbox is behind that thing with the drain pipe out the top and that is a belt drive coupled to a very small propshaft with uj.s at both ends, the outdrive has no gearbox as such. think of a lorry the axle goes up and down so they can't be in line but they don't blow up, you just got to mount things solid and let the ujs in the prop do the work

Cookee · 08 December 2009, 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by biffer

that would be better, have a look at pics the gearbox is behind that thing with the drain pipe out the top and that is a belt drive coupled to a very small propshaft with uj.s at both ends, the outdrive has no gearbox as such. think of a lorry the axle goes up and down so they can't be in line but they don't blow up, you just got to mount things solid and let the ujs in the prop do the work

I don't know where you got those photos from, but I haven't got a clue what you're talking about!

The engine doesn't appear to be connected to anything at all - or am I being thick here?

Where is the belt drive?

Where is the very small propshaft?

chewy · 08 December 2009, 10:27

You can see the prop shaft to the left of the pic with tape on. Its not connected to the engine.

biffer · 08 December 2009, 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cookee

I don't know where you got those photos from, but I haven't got a clue what you're talking about!

The engine doesn't appear to be connected to anything at all - or am I being thick here?

Where is the belt drive?

Where is the very small propshaft?

chewy is rightand the drive belt is inside that thing with the drain pipe on it, the gearbox is tucked inbetween, i doubt your'e thick maybe not seen a hydraulic tractor gearbox fitted in a boat before

biffer · 08 December 2009, 12:05

cookee, the pic's are from my collection of boats i've done, posted another pic of a boat i refitted just in case you thought i was talking out my bum or was thick

Cookee · 08 December 2009, 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by biffer

cookee, the pic's are from my collection of boats i've done, posted another pic of a boat i refitted just in case you thought i was talking out my bum or was thick

always will to learn - so is that a Weismann box on the engine then? If it's a hydraulic tractor box why fit that to an outdrive or is that how Pat Weismann is doing it now? Don't Weismann drives have gearboxes in them at all?

Sorry for the questions - hope you'll humour me!

Jacob555 · 08 December 2009, 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mollers

Are you having a laugh?

No, a motorcycle engine will never be any good, it would never generate enough torque if HP. The smallest engine Mercruiser fit to that leg is a 3.7 ltr straight 6.

Also, direct alignment is critical.

Yes, but that 3.7 ltr straight 6 only has one forward gear. I will have 6, and a mechanical sequential box to shift them with. Evens out the torque battle a bit doesn't it?

biffer · 08 December 2009, 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cookee

always will to learn - so is that a Weismann box on the engine then? If it's a hydraulic tractor box why fit that to an outdrive or is that how Pat Weismann is doing it now? Don't Weismann drives have gearboxes in them at all?

Sorry for the questions - hope you'll humour me!

the weisman drive in the pic is just straight through, there's a stack of cogs (one on top of the other) that you can change for ratio. the engine normally has a hydraulic box on the back with the forward and reverse in with again different ratio's to be had, the gearbox in the pic could be set to slip and you could dial in the amount of slip and alter it as you went along (higher revs, more hp, etc) sorry if i sounded grumpy earlier, i was, and to answer jacob555's question the gears woun't help much, we found that the further you went throough the gear the more the prop dragged on the engine, we finished up thinking that the prop you start with wasn't the one you need when in 4th or 5th gear.

Mollers · 08 December 2009, 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacob555

Yes, but that 3.7 ltr straight 6 only has one forward gear. I will have 6, and a mechanical sequential box to shift them with. Evens out the torque battle a bit doesn't it?

Oh Lord!

I think, without exception, every attempt at marinising car/van/ motorbike engines that I've come across has been a 'Lash-up', which is Cornish for disaster.

biffer · 08 December 2009, 18:11

true enough mollers, but when your'e nippers with webbed feet and come from a fisherman family you'll have a go at anything you can get your hands on. i can remember an old speed boat made of wood, with a inboard bmw engine in it, we got it going and put it in the river, caning up the river the ply bottom sprung and that was the end of that, we swam back

Dirk Diggler · 09 December 2009, 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mollers

Are you having a laugh?

The smallest engine Mercruiser fit to that leg is a 3.7 ltr straight 6.

So what about the 4 cylinder 140hp petrol, that is probably the most popular engine choice, or the 1.7 litre diesel, as used in white vans???

Dirk Diggler · 09 December 2009, 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mollers

Oh Lord!

I think, without exception, every attempt at marinising car/van/ motorbike engines that I've come across has been a 'Lash-up', which is Cornish for disaster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mollers

I had a 5.7ltr V8 on an Alhpa One leg. :

So where do you think you're 5.7 litre derives from??