Honda 60HP 4 stroke idle problem

[Burgie]

Hello,
One of my sailing clubs ribs suffers a problem when idling, it's a Honda 4 stroke 60HP from 2011. The engine will idle for ~10 seconds. I have replace the fuel lines and cooling system and the problem still consists. Any ideas?

[Burgie]

Also forgot to mention that we had gravel in the impellor, but as far as I'm aware a Honda dealer fixed this. The engine seems to tick over before it cuts out.

[breezeblock]

try the easy bits first put some fresh fuel in it and a new set of plugs and go from there

[Burgie]

Originally Posted by breezeblock

try the easy bits first put some fresh fuel in it and a new set of plugs and go from there

Plugs were replaced a few weeks ago, the fuel system has been flushed.

[Mollers]

Honda OBs can be prone to gumming up due to non fresh fuel. This can lead to idle issues.

I run our's up on flush muffs and blat carb cleaner through it, it seams to work. Spike the revs and hold it back from over revving by partially stalling it on carb cleaner is my technique. It'll cough a fart a bit.

[breezeblock]

check inlet manifold for vacuum leaks

[sailrib]

I've had the same motor, just a little older and bigger but same class. I would have the same issues and for me cleaning the injectors would fix the issue. It's a pain.

I was told that very minuscule objects in the fuel would build up around the jets either restricting flow or clogging all together. If I can recall, the mechanic said the new fuels can exacerbate this problem.

The mechanic would take the injectors apart and clean them sonically. It happened twice in the first year I owned the boat. I had a 170L fuel tank that was contaminated that was flushed out twice and new in line fuel filters installed and still ended up with the problem from residual contaminates that were missed from the flushing.

It's a great motor and I loved using it but I really look forward to never having to deal with that again.

Hopefully your issue is easier to rectify.

[matata]

Ours is a yam F115 and we installed a Racor 2 micron filter as injectors clogging is a real issue these days. Its not very difficult to remove the injectors and have them tested and cleaned. It sounds like this has happened to you before?

[mick]

Another thing to consider is where you get fuel from nowt like cheap supermarket fuel for fecking injectors up 🙄

[breezeblock]

Originally Posted by mick

Another thing to consider is where you get fuel from nowt like cheap supermarket fuel for fecking injectors up 🙄

we used cheap supermarket fuel a couple of times for our chainsaw and the difference in running is very noticeable cheap crap springs to mind

[sailrib]

Originally Posted by mick

Another thing to consider is where you get fuel from nowt like cheap supermarket fuel for fecking injectors up ��

I totally agree and other some things to consider when having problems with idle and acceleration. Based on my experience over the years using ribs/outboards on several continents is that most outboard engine issues is because of the fuel and the fuel delivery system being effected by bad gas, lack of proper care of fuel and proper storage of fuel.

Be careful of gasoline with E10 (10%) Ethanol. E5 or lower is preferred.

Ethanol is produced from corn, soybeans, sugar cane, or other organic material. It is blended with gasoline (10% ethanol, 90% gasoline) to produce E10

Most newer engines are designed to use E10 but it's the older fuel delivery systems, hoses and fuel tanks that are the problem.

Ethanol is an excellent solvent, drying agent and cleanser. It will clean or dissolve some parts of, and deposits in, fuel storage and fuel delivery systems, including some fuel tank materials. The dissolved material can clog filters or pass through and leave deposits on fuel injectors, fuel pumps, fuel pressure regulators, carburetor jets, intake tracts, valves, and valve guides.

*This was my problem with my Honda outboard. The rib with this outboard was older and the fuel sat in the tank for a while being stored prior to my buying it.

In storage, gasoline immediately starts to oxidize and deteriorate. The older it gets the more it deteriorates and the more likely it will cause hard starting, performance issues and gum deposits that clog the fuel system.

If the gasoline in your fuel tank and carburetor has significantly deteriorated during storage, you may need to have the carburetor and other fuel system components serviced or replaced.

For me, my jets had gum deposits and varnishing that really effected motor idle.

Also: Ethanol is hygroscopic, which means it attracts and retains water. The lower the fuel level in the tank, the more likely you will experience water contamination. If the contamination is severe, a layer of alcohol/water can form at the bottom of the fuel tank. This is called phase separation, and can cause damage to the fuel tank and engine.

Keep your fuel tank as full as possible with fresh fuel and out of direct sunlight.
Install additional water separating fuel filters in your boat and keep spare filters on-hand.
Use a fuel stabilizer along with fresh fuel when your boat is stored (follow the procedure noted in your owner’s manual to ensure proper storage).
Use a gas station with a reputation for quality fuel and with high volume.

The length of time that gasoline can be left in your fuel tank and carburetor without causing functional problems will vary depending on a variety of factors.

Fuel formulations vary by region. Depending on the region where you operate your outboard, fuel may deteriorate and oxidize more rapidly (in as little as 15 days).

Other factors include:

The air volume in a partially filled fuel tank promotes fuel deterioration.
Very warm storage, high humidity and variable temperatures accelerate fuel deterioration.
Fuel deterioration problems may occur in less than 30 days if the gasoline was not fresh when you filled the fuel tank. Purchasing fuel from a busy, reputable gas station is recommended.


Last thing. People talk about using high octane for better performance in there outboard. Outboards are relatively low compression motors and prefer longer burn gasoline and don't need high octane. Idle can be effected and not run as smooth with high octane short burn fuel.

Premium high octane fuel is used for higher compression engines, it actually burns slower, which helps reduce detonation but you Lower horsepower motor may idle better with lower octane (longer burn). Check your manual for recommended octane. It may surprise you.

Hope this info helps

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by sailrib

I totally agree and other some things to consider when having problems with idle and acceleration. Based on my experience over the years using ribs/outboards on several continents is that most outboard engine issues is because of the fuel and the fuel delivery system being effected by bad gas, lack of proper care of fuel and proper storage of fuel.

Be careful of gasoline with E10 (10%) Ethanol. E5 or lower is preferred.

Ethanol is produced from corn, soybeans, sugar cane, or other organic material. It is blended with gasoline (10% ethanol, 90% gasoline) to produce E10

Most newer engines are designed to use E10 but it's the older fuel delivery systems, hoses and fuel tanks that are the problem.

Ethanol is an excellent solvent, drying agent and cleanser. It will clean or dissolve some parts of, and deposits in, fuel storage and fuel delivery systems, including some fuel tank materials. The dissolved material can clog filters or pass through and leave deposits on fuel injectors, fuel pumps, fuel pressure regulators, carburetor jets, intake tracts, valves, and valve guides.

*This was my problem with my Honda outboard. The rib with this outboard was older and the fuel sat in the tank for a while being stored prior to my buying it.

In storage, gasoline immediately starts to oxidize and deteriorate. The older it gets the more it deteriorates and the more likely it will cause hard starting, performance issues and gum deposits that clog the fuel system.

If the gasoline in your fuel tank and carburetor has significantly deteriorated during storage, you may need to have the carburetor and other fuel system components serviced or replaced.

For me, my jets had gum deposits and varnishing that really effected motor idle.

Also: Ethanol is hygroscopic, which means it attracts and retains water. The lower the fuel level in the tank, the more likely you will experience water contamination. If the contamination is severe, a layer of alcohol/water can form at the bottom of the fuel tank. This is called phase separation, and can cause damage to the fuel tank and engine.

Keep your fuel tank as full as possible with fresh fuel and out of direct sunlight.
Install additional water separating fuel filters in your boat and keep spare filters on-hand.
Use a fuel stabilizer along with fresh fuel when your boat is stored (follow the procedure noted in your owner’s manual to ensure proper storage).
Use a gas station with a reputation for quality fuel and with high volume.

The length of time that gasoline can be left in your fuel tank and carburetor without causing functional problems will vary depending on a variety of factors.

Fuel formulations vary by region. Depending on the region where you operate your outboard, fuel may deteriorate and oxidize more rapidly (in as little as 15 days).

Other factors include:

The air volume in a partially filled fuel tank promotes fuel deterioration.
Very warm storage, high humidity and variable temperatures accelerate fuel deterioration.
Fuel deterioration problems may occur in less than 30 days if the gasoline was not fresh when you filled the fuel tank. Purchasing fuel from a busy, reputable gas station is recommended.


Last thing. People talk about using high octane for better performance in there outboard. Outboards are relatively low compression motors and prefer longer burn gasoline and don't need high octane. Idle can be effected and not run as smooth with high octane short burn fuel.

Premium high octane fuel is used for higher compression engines, it actually burns slower, which helps reduce detonation but you Lower horsepower motor may idle better with lower octane (longer burn). Check your manual for recommended octane. It may surprise you.

Hope this info helps

In a nutshell.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Mollers

In a nutshell.

OH no I hope this won't start another looooooonnnnggg thread on petrol again 🙄🙄🙄

[sailrib]

Originally Posted by mick

OH no I hope this won't start another looooooonnnnggg thread on petrol again ������

I hope so not as well as this thread is about Honda idle problems but I will say you have to go deep down in the pages to find any titles with petrol in it and I believe that quite often rib owners focus more on fixing the symptoms without consideration of the source of the problems which almost always fuel quality, the tank and fuel delivery system.

With the ribs that I've had with a good clean source (petrol station), good tank and fuel delivery system, the motors seem to go on forever without fail.

There's nothing better when every time you step on the boat, turn the key and able to untie the dock lines without disruption.

[Burgie]

That may be the problem, the sailing club loves to pump cheap fuel into our outboards, I'll have a look tomorrow and see of that's the problem.

[mick]

Originally Posted by sailrib

I hope so not as well as this thread is about Honda idle problems but I will say you have to go deep down in the pages to find any titles with petrol in it and I believe that quite often rib owners focus more on fixing the symptoms without consideration of the source of the problems which almost always fuel quality, the tank and fuel delivery system.

With the ribs that I've had with a good clean source (petrol station), good tank and fuel delivery system, the motors seem to go on forever without fail.

There's nothing better when every time you step on the boat, turn the key and able to untie the dock lines without disruption.

Yup I agree

[mick]

Originally Posted by Burgie

That may be the problem, the sailing club loves to pump cheap fuel into our outboards, I'll have a look tomorrow and see of that's the problem.

Can you run it from a on deck tank with some shell or BP in and put some injector cleaner in and give it a good blast

[Pikey Dave]

Just to add to the high octane angle, Ethanol is used as an additive to raise the Octane value. I asked Shell for data sheets on their various fuels. The bog standard unleaded came back as "less than 5% ethanol". The super duper max power expensive stuff came back as "upto 10%" ethanol. They didn't give specific values for the amount of ethanol, but the implication was that the expensive higher octane fuel has more ethanol. Also the claims that the expensive stuff cleans your engine & fuel system ties in with the increased ethanol.
Unless your outboard has knock sensors & the ECU is capable of altering the timing, using high octane fuel is at least a waste of money, at worst asking for trouble.
The best defence is good (double) filtration with quality water separating filters. I.e Racor. IMHO


Lions led by donkeys

[Burgie]

Alright, i travelled for a while to get some good fuel and injector cleaner. I ran it for 20mins and now it runs great. Thanks guys

[Jojosrib]

Originally Posted by sailrib

I hope so not as well as this thread is about Honda idle problems but I will say you have to go deep down in the pages to find any titles with petrol in it and I believe that quite often rib owners focus more on fixing the symptoms without consideration of the source of the problems which almost always fuel quality, the tank and fuel delivery system.

With the ribs that I've had with a good clean source (petrol station), good tank and fuel delivery system, the motors seem to go on forever without fail.

There's nothing better when every time you step on the boat, turn the key and able to untie the dock lines without disruption.

Thanks sail rib......it s a good in depth, accurate account that will help many Boaties....