Honda just lost a big fan

[jonp]

Ive had the bf 90, had quite a bit of corrosion from the previous owners lack of maintenance. The only reason I took on the engine was because of the reputation with many reaching upwards of 9000 hrs on house boats over here.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Jklingel

•• WTF? You act like I was trying to hide the engine age. I am gonads to the wall and probably missed other "requests", too. Who do you think I am? Hillary Clinton? Sheeez. I still am not concerned about the age, and never have been, but am about the WEAR, like I stated. I think I said that before. I don't think Honda owes me a new engine, either; that would be ridiculous. However, them not owning the issue and giving a carte blance "out of warranty" without any offer of any help rubs me wrong. They could at least do one or the other, and SOME kind of assistance would be nice. I fully realize the age/warranty issue because that is the accepted norm and is understandable in most cases, which I've already elaborated on. What we need is a paradigm shift in our thinking of what constitutes "old". Cheers. I am done w/ this now. I appreciate the input but will encourage anyone to fight when they feel their cause is just, despite the popular and accepted norm. You either fight, or you roll over and pee on yourself like a puppy.

I take it, that you've never ridden on the Clapham omnibus


Early Hondas weren't called "Aspirins" for nothing, it's because they dissolved in water


I take it you have a full dealer service history for the 7 years you've owned the engine, that will help in any claim against Honda


Like I said, good luck

[Last Tango]

So this is where we've come to.......we just have to accept that with all the development and advancement in outboard design we might only get a few hundred hours and ten years out of a modern engine.
There are thirty year old outboards with ten times these hours on them still doing what they were designed to do.
Honda... (and I've got one)... hang your head in shame
What's more, we're every bit as bad as them for passively accepting this example of p155 poor engineering design and build. They knew the mounting orientation of this "car engine" was going to create challenges and all they've done about it is brief their dealer network on how to "stonewall" customers.

[office888]

Age is just as bad as high hours.

Sometimes it is worse because it means maintenance was not done at proper intervals, oil changes were stretched out, or the engine was not ran on a regular enough basis to remove water condensate from the crankcase.

Ethanol fuels can radically increase wear to metallic surfaces.

Using non-oem approved oils or the incorrect oil weight for your region can also increase wear.

[Last Tango]

Originally Posted by office888

Age is just as bad as high hours.

Sometimes it is worse because it means maintenance was not done at proper intervals, oil changes were stretched out, or the engine was not ran on a regular enough basis to remove water condensate from the crankcase.

Ethanol fuels can radically increase wear to metallic surfaces.

Using non-oem approved oils or the incorrect oil weight for your region can also increase wear.

Is ten years old "old" for an outboard? .....this isn't a washing machine or a TV that cost a few hundred pounds.
The point regarding Ethanol fuels is no doubt true but this is a four stroke engine and the fuel shouldn't be anywhere near the crankshaft thrust bearings.
If it was a "one-off" then, perhaps, poor maintenance, but it kind of looks like Honda have a problem. All their glitzy advertising wouldn't have come cheep and maybe some of that budget should have been spent making the product more robust.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Last Tango

So this is where we've come to.......we just have to accept that with all the development and advancement in outboard design we might only get a few hundred hours and ten years out of a modern engine.
There are thirty year old outboards with ten times these hours on them still doing what they were designed to do.
Honda... (and I've got one)... hang your head in shame
What's more, we're every bit as bad as them for passively accepting this example of p155 poor engineering design and build. They knew the mounting orientation of this "car engine" was going to create challenges and all they've done about it is brief their dealer network on how to "stonewall" customers.

Did every one of this model fail at <300hrs? Seems premature to say it's a fundamental design flaw if many engines live longer. If it is simply a premature wear issue then I'll say again, on this older low hours example the dealer/mechanic should have been expecting a problem and been proactive.

[willk]

Did we get a service history for this motor? I'm not going to read it all again, but I don't recall seeing a regular (annual) service pattern?

[Poly]

Originally Posted by willk

Did we get a service history for this motor? I'm not going to read it all again, but I don't recall seeing a regular (annual) service pattern?

It had only just been broken in ;-)

[willk]

Originally Posted by Poly

It had only just been broken in ;-)

Troublemaker!

[office888]

Originally Posted by Last Tango

Is ten years old "old" for an outboard? .....this isn't a washing machine or a TV that cost a few hundred pounds.
The point regarding Ethanol fuels is no doubt true but this is a four stroke engine and the fuel shouldn't be anywhere near the crankshaft thrust bearings.
If it was a "one-off" then, perhaps, poor maintenance, but it kind of looks like Honda have a problem. All their glitzy advertising wouldn't have come cheep and maybe some of that budget should have been spent making the product more robust.

It's not old, but it certainly outside of where a manufacturer has control of the product. There are simply too many variables once an engine is that age.

Maybe it sat in storage for 3 years with the same old oil from last season and the acidic oil ate the bearings? Who knows.

Fuel contamination of your oil can happen... even during regular operation because of excessive idling.

Oil analysis is a wonderful thing:
Marine Sample Report 2

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by willk

Did we get a service history for this motor? I'm not going to read it all again, but I don't recall seeing a regular (annual) service pattern?

See post #42, no response😎


.....sh1t happens.......

[neil.mccrirrick]

There are many ways to describe you PD but nondescript is not one of them -(see Clapham omnibus) 👍


Sent from my iPad using my finger

[Xk59D]

Originally Posted by Last Tango

Is ten years old "old" for an outboard? .....this isn't a washing machine or a TV that cost a few hundred pounds.
The point regarding Ethanol fuels is no doubt true but this is a four stroke engine and the fuel shouldn't be anywhere near the crankshaft thrust bearings.
If it was a "one-off" then, perhaps, poor maintenance, but it kind of looks like Honda have a problem. All their glitzy advertising wouldn't have come cheep and maybe some of that budget should have been spent making the product more robust.

I think Honda spend all their money on sweeties rather than dev, If their Outboards and f1 engines are anything to go by! If you Google you will find this fault on just about every motor they make, strange.

They have lived on VTEC name for too long. All the lag and little boost someone once said, sums it up nicely.

Cheers

[ShinyShoe]

But if I google any two stroke manufacturer I'll get plenty of "blocked carb" hits. ...does that mean every two stroke has a fundamental design flaw? There are plenty of two stroke owners out there who don't have blocked carbs. Plenty others who don't use their engine exactly per the book (leaving fuel in over winter, using old fuel, knackered rubber pipes, rusty tanks, dirty supplies etc) who may or may not have issues. OK those engines aren't terminally damaged...

Every F1 team has had an engine or several blow up. They abuse their engines.

I'm not saying the Honda engine design is perfect. But we know this engine did low hours, and as several have posted an idle engine is not a healthy thing. We don't know the detail on its care and servicing. We don't know what checks were done for it happening.

[Xk59D]

If you Google thrust washer Honda you will see a lot of threads with various sizes of engine. Honda have attempted to fix the issue on some engines but not the 150 in question here for whatever reason. Or, I can't find a service bulletin for the 150 I should perhaps say

I think the OP has been unlucky with it failing. Others have had this issue even with a solid service history and in warranty so who knows if it could have been prevented. I agree that sitting idol is probably not a good thing but others reported failures in heavy use so perhaps it wouldn't matter.....we'll never know.

With that said, I still expect Honda to say beat it and OP is out whatever for a new motor and you can't really blame them unfortunately.

Unfortunately, you will find design, or perhaps tollerance flaws is a better term?, with everything if you look hard enough. my own zuke 200 v6 (150 upwards I think actually) has been known to digest butterfly screws and writing it off for example. Thankfully threads like this are there and forewarned is forearmed and I have the chance to keep an eye on it (5 min job for mine).

If anything good comes from this it is likely to be how someone can check for this and if it can be fixed/prevented to help future owners of Honda's, at the very least others can go on THT and perhaps find out how to anyway. There are simply too many Honda's about to be bad motors so this is probably a rare thing to happen thankfully, my neck of the woods has loads of them anyway.

If I owned a Honda under warranty I would ask this also be checked at service time just to be safe.

Cheers

P.s the F1 Honda engine is abysmal ATM. F1 engines are not pushed to the edge anymore sadly. Also merc e.g aint had a dnf due to engine this year so it is possible, one for another day on another subject though.

[Sonar]

So I guess the question just has to be do the dealers know what issues and possible faults could arise with all makes of outboard engine.???

Is it a question one has to ask before buying a new motor..
Seems to me the very old motors are the best and made of stronger stuff..