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30 May 2010, 19:25
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#1
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Member
Country: UK - Wales
Town: N. Pembrokeshire
Boat name: Various
Make: RIBs & Hovercraft
Length: 9m +
Engine: Outboards
MMSI: Various
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,358
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Is this 'Blow Out'?
We've been running the 15 pitch 4 blader today with a full boat (non dive party). The extra hole shot with the swell and rough bar proved really useful!!
However, on the run back into the estuary we had (the only) opportunity to go WOT. When it does run WOT it does a strange 'surging' of power (on and off type frequency) and changes engine tone (grumbles) as it does it....I would suggest it changes rpm by about 100rpm up and down between 5100rpm and 5200rpm (roughly) seems to go away if you drop off WOT.....No engine alarms or obvious mech probs....is this what I've heard refrerred to as 'blow out' of the prop?
Intend to stick the 19 on tomorow (tide wouldn't allow us to stay afloat today) and see if it goes away.....
Any one able to shed any light on this?
Thanks v. much
Dan
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30 May 2010, 19:58
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#2
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Member
Country: Other
Town: Stanley, Falkland Is
Boat name: Seawolf
Make: Osprey Vipermax 5.8
Length: 5m +
Engine: Etec 150
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,726
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What is the max rpm the engine is supposed to do - it isn't an engine rev limiter cutting in and out is it?
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30 May 2010, 20:44
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#3
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Member
Country: France
Town: Côte d'Azur
Boat name: Beaver Patrol
Make: Avon Searider SR4
Length: 4m +
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,934
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Sounds very much like the rev limiter kicking in
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30 May 2010, 20:44
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#4
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RIBnet admin team
Country: UK - England
Town: The wilds of Wiltshire
Boat name: Dominator
Make: SR5.4
Length: 7m +
Engine: Yam 85
MMSI: 235055163
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 13,069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BogMonster
What is the max rpm the engine is supposed to do - it isn't an engine rev limiter cutting in and out is it?
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Unlikely at 5100 rpm.
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30 May 2010, 21:10
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#5
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Up Norf
Make: Avon SR4,Tremlett 23
Length: 4m +
Engine: Yam 55, Volvo 200
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,217
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Does it happen when your climbing a wave or any particular sea state?
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30 May 2010, 21:22
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#6
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Member
Country: UK - Wales
Town: N. Pembrokeshire
Boat name: Various
Make: RIBs & Hovercraft
Length: 9m +
Engine: Outboards
MMSI: Various
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,358
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No, not rev limiter, but that sort of effect....tech literature gives max RPM as circa 5700rpm IIRC. It doesn't happen at any particular point on wave etc. and only at WOT.....power back a little and goes away....
I was sure i'd read about this on a boat forum (hence the 'blow out' query), but buggered if i can find it.
We opened up to WOT on the final run in to the estuary as it had flattened out and allowed...tide was on a strong ebb (not that I think that has any bearing).
Strange one...going to run out with the 19 tomorrow and see if it still happens....I'm leaning towards it being the prop casuing it as no engine faults and it ran faultlessly otherwise.
If cookee or another pefromance ribber is looking in, is the 'blow out' something the racing guys struggle with or did i imagine that too?
D
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30 May 2010, 22:19
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#7
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Member
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Glasgow
Boat name: stramash
Make: Tornado
Length: 5m +
Engine: Etec 90
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim M
Sounds very much like the rev limiter kicking in
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Sounds like that to me too and your gauge just doesnt read properly for some reason.. does the prop have gas vents ?
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30 May 2010, 22:49
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#8
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Member
Country: UK - Wales
Town: N. Pembrokeshire
Boat name: Various
Make: RIBs & Hovercraft
Length: 9m +
Engine: Outboards
MMSI: Various
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigmuz7
Sounds like that to me too and your gauge just doesnt read properly for some reason.. does the prop have gas vents ?
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Assume that means the holes on the hub? If so, the SS Laser II 19 pitch does, but the (new) ali 4 blader doesn't....
Would have thought the tacho was okay? It's a new smartcraft one....shows similar revs with the 19 and no rev limiter type issue there??
Also, found the thread where i'd read about blow out...hope it's okay to link to Boat Mad here? http://www.boatmad.com/forum/showthread.php?p=177430
This is on an Opti 200....dead similar /same symptoms....
Will swap over to the 19 tomorow and see what happens
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30 May 2010, 22:57
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#9
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RIBnet admin team
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: imposter
Make: FunYak
Length: 3m +
Engine: Tohatsu 30HP
MMSI: 235089819
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Worth
Would have thought the tacho was okay? It's a new smartcraft one....
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Is it damped though? So you are actually getting the "average" revs over maybe the last 20 seconds which isn't showing the peak (because the limiter has cut in?)
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30 May 2010, 23:17
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#10
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Member
Country: UK - Scotland
Make: HumberOceanOffshore
Length: 8m +
Engine: Volvo KAD300/DPX
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 5,596
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It could be a number of things, rev limiter is the obvious but could also be fuel starvation or other engine problem. It's not blow out. Blowout occurs when the water can no longer follow the surface of the gearcase and prop hub and can be sudden. Effective drive from the prop ceases and it is a dangerous and undesirable situation. It normally only happens at very high speed.
Fuel starvation is my guess.
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JW.
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31 May 2010, 09:26
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#11
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Salcombe, Devon, UK
Boat name: BananaShark
Make: BananaShark
Length: 10m +
Engine: 2xYanmar 260 diesels
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,225
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It's not blow out - the whole back of the boat goes sideways and believe me it gets your attention!
Waste of time going up 4" of pitch if you're not hitting top revs with the 15" so I don't understand how you can get the same RPM? Is the 19 a three blader and smaller diameter by any chance?
The holes in the prop are irrelevant at this speed
Is the boat porpoising at all?
Have a look to see if there is any pitting on the blades on the four blader.
Just my 2P worth!
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Cookee
Originally Posted by Zippy
When a boat looks that good who needs tubes!!!
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31 May 2010, 22:17
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#12
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Member
Country: UK - Wales
Town: N. Pembrokeshire
Boat name: Various
Make: RIBs & Hovercraft
Length: 9m +
Engine: Outboards
MMSI: Various
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookee
It's not blow out - the whole back of the boat goes sideways and believe me it gets your attention!
Waste of time going up 4" of pitch if you're not hitting top revs with the 15" so I don't understand how you can get the same RPM? Is the 19 a three blader and smaller diameter by any chance?
The holes in the prop are irrelevant at this speed
Is the boat porpoising at all?
Have a look to see if there is any pitting on the blades on the four blader.
Just my 2P worth!
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Thanks all for your responses....props really are proving a black art to me....
Ran some trials today....the effect goes away with the 19 pitch....
The revs definately show the same /similar with both props (as posted on earliuer thread can't get my head around this)....probably inaccuracy in the gauge (?) as has been suggested....therefore, concede it may be a rev limiter, although can't find any mention of a rev limiter doing a brief internet search....perhaps someone who knows could advise.
No pitting of the prop Cookee, and as above re the revs dia of both props the same....bizarre!
Anyway, relieved it doesn't appear to be an engine fault! ALTHOUGH, it threw a brief check engine alarm "SENSOR POWER" as i came off the water Typical Cleared now and hasn't reappeared...don't have my manual to hand so not sure which sensor triggered it....anyone know off the top of their head?
Back out tomorrow....
Thanks again to all
Dan
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31 May 2010, 22:27
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#13
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Member
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Glasgow
Boat name: stramash
Make: Tornado
Length: 5m +
Engine: Etec 90
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,090
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Call me a witch .. but (in the absence of being there) I think 15" is too small for that set up and in any case what was it... 15 x what ?
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01 June 2010, 11:17
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#14
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Member
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: Wildheart
Make: Humber/Delta Seasafe
Length: 5m +
Engine: Merc 60 Clamshell
MMSI: 235068449
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,671
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Jumping back to the tacho for a minute - what flavour of merc is it? I'm thinking if it;s one of these new fangled digital things, chances of the tacho getting the wrong signal are slim (it will take the tacho reading form the crank sensor signal rather than the slightly crude but effective counting pulses form the alternator)
I just calculated the ratio of pulses for an analouge tacho set to the wrong number of poles, and the theoretically indicated revs don't add up there either assuming a rev limiter at 5700. That of course doesn't prove the "needle to pulse count" accuracy.
If you can borrow a tacho, might be worth just sanity checking yours.
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01 June 2010, 13:05
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#15
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Member
Country: UK - Wales
Town: N. Pembrokeshire
Boat name: Various
Make: RIBs & Hovercraft
Length: 9m +
Engine: Outboards
MMSI: Various
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9D280
Jumping back to the tacho for a minute - what flavour of merc is it? I'm thinking if it;s one of these new fangled digital things, chances of the tacho getting the wrong signal are slim (it will take the tacho reading form the crank sensor signal rather than the slightly crude but effective counting pulses form the alternator)
I just calculated the ratio of pulses for an analouge tacho set to the wrong number of poles, and the theoretically indicated revs don't add up there either assuming a rev limiter at 5700. That of course doesn't prove the "needle to pulse count" accuracy.
If you can borrow a tacho, might be worth just sanity checking yours.
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Tis an Opti....150
I have a spare smartcraft which if 'd thought I would have put on...good thinking batman!
Just got back from sea....all ran fine. The POWER SENSOR alarm turned out to be a dodgy speed wheel sensor....so disabled that and all fine. Running with 19 and no probs....guess it must have been rev limiter??
Was talking to a dealer earlier who said he's never been able to get a 150 Opti near the top revs of 5700....on tacho at least....
Possibly wrong attitude, but just pleased its all okay.....need to keep the throttle back slightly with the 15 pitch....not a prob when loaded up....
Incidentally with the paddle wheel now going caput, this means that I have had to disable both the pitot and the paddle wheel sensor as well as the trim sensor which has also thrown a wobbler....will get them looked at at some point /when I next go to a dealers...fragile aren't they!
Cheers Dan
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01 June 2010, 13:13
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#16
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Dorset & Hants
Boat name: Streaker/Orange
Make: Avon/Ribcraft
Length: 4m +
Engine: 50Yam/25 Mariner
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Worth
Incidentally with the paddle wheel now going caput, this means that I have had to disable both the pitot and the paddle wheel sensor as well as the trim sensor which has also thrown a wobbler....will get them looked at at some point /when I next go to a dealers...fragile aren't they!
Cheers Dan
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Can you not tell the guage to read from the pitot at a lower speed ? My paddle wheel (and the depth) becomes worthless at anything over 10knots - so I have set it to switch from the paddle to pitot at 5knots .
I am pretty sure the opti rev gauges are accurate & instant ( not averaged) but with all the electrickery going on who knows !
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01 June 2010, 13:30
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#17
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Member
Country: UK - Wales
Town: N. Pembrokeshire
Boat name: Various
Make: RIBs & Hovercraft
Length: 9m +
Engine: Outboards
MMSI: Various
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterM
Can you not tell the guage to read from the pitot at a lower speed ? My paddle wheel (and the depth) becomes worthless at anything over 10knots - so I have set it to switch from the paddle to pitot at 5knots
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Sorry, wasn't clear....Pitot got switched off a while ago...kept throwing up check pitot and no obvious issue /blockage....got fed up and switched it off. Then the trim gauge went mental fluctuates betwen trailer and numbers (random number generator stylee ) so that got switched off....now the paddle wheel sensor has been causing alarms and the speedo to do strange things....have switched that off today and problem has gone away!
Will get them looked at when I get chance.....
D.
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01 June 2010, 14:11
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#18
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Member
Country: UK - Wales
Town: West Wales
Make: Vipermax 5.8, SR4.7
Length: 5m +
Engine: 150 Opti, F50EFi
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Worth
...Was talking to a dealer earlier who said he's never been able to get a 150 Opti near the top revs of 5700....
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Mine's the same - can't get it past 5100 RPM. The DDT readout confirms this too.
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02 June 2010, 08:56
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#19
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Salcombe, Devon, UK
Boat name: BananaShark
Make: BananaShark
Length: 10m +
Engine: 2xYanmar 260 diesels
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,225
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Connect your GPS up to the Smartcraft and tell it to use that - paddlewheels and pitots are not that great anyway!
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Cookee
Originally Posted by Zippy
When a boat looks that good who needs tubes!!!
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02 June 2010, 21:21
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#20
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Member
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Glasgow
Boat name: stramash
Make: Tornado
Length: 5m +
Engine: Etec 90
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookee
paddlewheels and pitots are not that great anyway!
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Yes thats been my experience too
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