Johnson 50 2-stroke any opinions?

George8910 · 29 November 2004, 15:35

Does anyone have an opinion on the Johnson 50 2-stroke, twin cylinder which keeps the weight down - seem to be usefully cheaper than a yamaha... any thoughts appreciated

Pete7 · 29 November 2004, 19:23

George, are we talking new or second hand ? and if its second hand how old ?

Pete

tue · 29 November 2004, 19:25

Also does it have the VRO oil injection system?

George8910 · 30 November 2004, 16:42

Thanks guys - yes it's a new one with oil injection PTT not sure what type of injection- offered at £2695inc vat 2 year warranty...

MeMe · 30 November 2004, 16:55

......but you might like to think of it like this. Betamax - VHS. VHS - DVD
2stroke - 4stroke. 4's are the way it's tending to go. This of course doesn't answer the Weight / Price / Performance issue, it's only an observation.

Perhaps some more info may help. Type of vessel and size, intended use etc. Anyway, Good Luck.

Nick Hearne · 30 November 2004, 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeMe

......but you might like to think of it like this. Betamax - VHS. VHS - DVD
2stroke - 4stroke. 4's are the way it's tending to go. This of course doesn't answer the Weight / Price / Performance issue, it's only an observation.

Perhaps some more info may help. Type of vessel and size, intended use etc. Anyway, Good Luck.

Graham, you still run a 2 stroke on petrol! OK you put some oil in to but I do not think that this should become too scarce!
Nick

George8910 · 30 November 2004, 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeMe

......but you might like to think of it like this. Betamax - VHS. VHS - DVD
2stroke - 4stroke. 4's are the way it's tending to go. This of course doesn't answer the Weight / Price / Performance issue, it's only an observation.

Perhaps some more info may help. Type of vessel and size, intended use etc. Anyway, Good Luck.

Thanks MeMe - I am continuing the searider search saga... looking now for a SR4.0m and have been also looking into engines so as to have greater flexibility for buying - there are a few around with dying or no engine - I don't anticipate hundreds of hours a year - ideally I would like a Yamaha 50 but haven't spotted one at a good price...

slimtim · 30 November 2004, 20:21

George,

Try Kevin Mole outboards on the IOW. When I was looking for an engine, they had a yam 4 stroke 50hp for £2500 i think. It was second hand but had done very few hours. Not sure if they would still have it.

www.outboards.uk.com

Hope thats a help, I know its a bit far from you though!

Cheers

Tim

ribraff · 30 November 2004, 20:26

Tim

Am i right in saying that Kevin Mole is now a Ballistic dealer?......has he dropped ribeye???

slimtim · 30 November 2004, 20:29

Ed,

I have absolutely no idea! sorry! Might be up that way over xmas so i'll check it out.

Tim

Bilge Rat · 01 December 2004, 08:44

George

A couple of things to bere in mind.

1) think about resellerbility, is a Johnson with all there history as attractive when reselling as a Yamaha ? remember boats are a vanity thing !!
2) Reliability is the Johnson going to be as reliable as the Yam
3) After sales prices, Johnson and Evinrude parts tend to be twice the price of anything else on the market.
4) Ease of servicing, no point buying a johnson with warranty if you have to tow it 200 miles to have work or servicing carried out on it, suddenly the bargains not such a bargain any more.
5) Seriously think through the 2 stroke V 4 stroke debate, 2 stroke is due to be phased out soon, will it lose it value as a resell, ease of parts etc.

George8910 · 01 December 2004, 13:48

Thanks Bilge - yes seems johnson is a false economy - since starting this thread have been offered a 4stroke old stock yamaha 50 at £3150 but only 'gas ram' not full PTT - any one experience of these ideally boat needs to be easy to manage by others , or could PTT be retro fitted?

Thanks slimtim - I know kevin mole - intend to keep the boat on the IoW so I'll give him a call

MeMe · 01 December 2004, 14:10

..........forgive the simple analogy.

Would you buy a car without power steering ?

There's plenty of deals to be had out there, you just need to find the right one. There's a severe lack of buyers around at this time of year with a whole lot of sellers desperate for your money, therefore be bold, choose the engine you want and make a couple or 3 dealers an offer. One of 'em will snap your hand off.

Bilge Rat · 01 December 2004, 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeMe

..........forgive the simple analogy.

Would you buy a car without power steering ?

There's plenty of deals to be had out there, you just need to find the right one. There's a severe lack of buyers around at this time of year with a whole lot of sellers desperate for your money, therefore be bold, choose the engine you want and make a couple or 3 dealers an offer. One of 'em will snap your hand off.

Simple answer is yes, i have an L reg peugeot my wife drives around and it does not have power steering, we manage fine with it and see it as one less thing to go wrong !!

So the question really is " does a 40 hp really need to have PTT"

Answer is no you can manage easilly without ptt on this size of engine, it means less weight on the transom and less to go wrong, when they do go wrong they cost lots.

Retro fitting a ptt on a 40 is going to be a whole world of pain and cost, IMHO its not worth doing !!

MeMe · 01 December 2004, 15:32

......there's always going to be somone who is happy to "manage".

We're talking about buying new, therefore in this position would one buy without ? No. Also, I thought we were talking about a 50hp and there's a heap of difference between the two.

P

D would be a good one to offer an opinion on this, I'm sure given the opportunity he's opt for PTT over Ram, every time. What say you Phil ?

Always one for analogys. A car without electric windows in the front

Phil Davies · 01 December 2004, 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeMe

P

D would be a good one to offer an opinion on this, I'm sure given the opportunity he's opt for PTT over Ram, every time. What say you Phil ?

I'd say if I'd known the slightest thing about RIBs when I bought mine I'd NEVER have gone for the manual trim/tilt version. My Honda hasn't even got gas-assisted lift. Although only a 30hp the engine is damn heavy to lift into the transit position when you approach the slipway, quite apart from the fact that I have to leave the controls, walk to the stern and raise it manually, all of which can get interesting if you've got a bit of a current running close to your docking area.

And that's just the problem with manual tilt. The idea of being able to trim the boat at sea by repositioning that awkwardly placed pin by hand just doesn't happen. In practice I leave the pin in what appears to be the best compromise position and it never moves. I therefore can't trim out in a following sea nor trim in in a head sea, which can be a disadvantage, albeit to a slightly lesser extent with a 4m RIB.

slimtim · 01 December 2004, 17:49

I agree with Phil here, it can be a right pain in the arse without PT&T, but then again its probably an even worse pain in the arse if it goes wrong!

Tim

MeMe · 01 December 2004, 21:13

..........I knew your summation would put a full stop to this debate.

Bilge Rat · 02 December 2004, 08:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Davies

I'd say if I'd known the slightest thing about RIBs when I bought mine I'd NEVER have gone for the manual trim/tilt version. My Honda hasn't even got gas-assisted lift. Although only a 30hp the engine is damn heavy to lift into the transit position when you approach the slipway, quite apart from the fact that I have to leave the controls, walk to the stern and raise it manually, all of which can get interesting if you've got a bit of a current running close to your docking area.

And that's just the problem with manual tilt. The idea of being able to trim the boat at sea by repositioning that awkwardly placed pin by hand just doesn't happen. In practice I leave the pin in what appears to be the best compromise position and it never moves. I therefore can't trim out in a following sea nor trim in in a head sea, which can be a disadvantage, albeit to a slightly lesser extent with a 4m RIB.

Yes Phil but as you do say if you had known anything about ribs not only would you have bought PT&T you'd have bought a bigger boat with a bigger engine too........Do the mighty Honda do PT&T for the 30HP ?

I still strongly believe that what you have is a relatively quick superbly unsophisticated craft with superb sea keeping abilities, that delivers a lot of fun, is easilly towable, launchable and recoverable single handedly in any situation, its not pretening to be something its not, break speed records or take on massive across Ocean journeys, it simply is what it is and the combination of the 30HP 4 stroke Honda and boat with its reliability and fuel econnomy is awsome !!!

Now can i have that night hood you keep promising me

Phil Davies · 02 December 2004, 10:14

Interestingly, Honda now only makes a PT/T version of the 30hp. It was introduced about a year ago, presumably due to popular demand

'relatively quick and superbly unsophisticated' - patronising git. What you really mean is 'but not as quick as mine now I've got a shiny new Yamaha 60, and it looks a bit too commercial'