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Old 20 August 2021, 15:06   #1
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Leaking oil seal… cancel trip?

Hello relative new to ribs.

Had great fun all summer on my 60hp 2 stroke 1994 rib. With of course many breakdowns and fixing them myself.

Was changing the gear oil. Photo attached. Tbh is oil has been in since before I bough the boat and done a lot of hours I’d say.

While using the pump to pump in the oil I put the top screw in and put some pressure on the pump a very unscientific pressure test.

It did his and leak oil between casing and prop.

I’m going to fix it ASAP. But I have a trip this weekend with some friends. Would I get away with it or should I cancel. I know it’s an almost impossible question. But any advice would be great. (Close to shore trip with a backup 6hp)
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Old 20 August 2021, 16:40   #2
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Is it the oil seal or the filler plug washers? I’d put new oil in new washers go on you trip and have a look at the oil when you get back let it drain off totally and work from there
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Old 20 August 2021, 20:46   #3
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Is it the oil seal or the filler plug washers? I’d put new oil in new washers go on you trip and have a look at the oil when you get back let it drain off totally and work from there
Pretty sure it’s oil seal. Seems to be when I put the pressure to it. I hear oil squirting out behind the prop. Moments later drains down directly behind prop.

Cheers Jeff this is the advice I was after!
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Old 20 August 2021, 22:52   #4
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Pretty sure it’s oil seal. Seems to be when I put the pressure to it. I hear oil squirting out behind the prop. Moments later drains down directly behind prop.



Cheers Jeff this is the advice I was after!


Check for fishing line around the prop shaft.
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Old 21 August 2021, 04:18   #5
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Replace the seal.

Fill with gear oil.

Test your outboard.

Go on and enjoy your trip.

Bring tools and extra oil / extra seals in case.
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Old 21 August 2021, 10:17   #6
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It's a non pressure environment so the chances are that you'd be fine but I'd be inclined to at least whip the prop shaft housing out to have a look at the state of play.

I believe that just like the seal for the internal drive shaft it is a pair of double stacked seals. They might be completely shot but you also never know your luck that someone may have fitted them upside down.

If their condition looked ok and the last oil to come out showed no signs of water ingress then if I was planning some basic leisure use then I would be tempted to pack a bit of grease in there and use just the once before getting the new parts and replacing. As others have said, pack the tools and plan for the worst.
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Old 21 August 2021, 11:00   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smagu View Post
Pretty sure it’s oil seal. Seems to be when I put the pressure to it. I hear oil squirting out behind the prop. Moments later drains down directly behind prop.

Cheers Jeff this is the advice I was after!
Must be a pretty bad/damaged seal because filling from the bottom hole with the plug out of the top hole for fill level your not going to get much pressure build up.
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Old 21 August 2021, 13:30   #8
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the old oil doesn't look like it's emulsified so just fill it with new oil and enjoy your trip, fix it later but check the availability of seals etc before you pull it apart
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Old 21 August 2021, 20:30   #9
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Must be a pretty bad/damaged seal because filling from the bottom hole with the plug out of the top hole for fill level your not going to get much pressure build up.
Top screw was closed.

Cheers guys. Appreciate it! It’s an old engine and things don’t come undone too easy many a broken bolt already. So will have fun and get at it when I’m back!

Might put some grease in and clear any fishing line before!
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Old 21 August 2021, 22:00   #10
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Top screw was closed.

Cheers guys. Appreciate it! It’s an old engine and things don’t come undone too easy many a broken bolt already. So will have fun and get at it when I’m back!

Might put some grease in and clear any fishing line before!
You should fill from the bottom with the top plug out when oil runs out of that plug you are at the right oil level if you’ve left the top plug in and used a strong pump you will pass the oil seal under pressure and not have the correct amount of oil in the gearbox
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Old 21 August 2021, 22:06   #11
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Hello sorry should have said. That’s how I filled it but put the screw back in the top hole to see if it would hold pressure. Could the pressure of me pushing (not overly hard) have damaged the ring? Or would it simply bypass then be ok again?
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Old 21 August 2021, 22:16   #12
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Hello sorry should have said. That’s how I filled it but put the screw back in the top hole to see if it would hold pressure. Could the pressure of me pushing (not overly hard) have damaged the ring? Or would it simply bypass then be ok again?
You have water getting that’s certain by the white ish streak in the oil it’s not that bad I’ve seen far worse when it’s been totally emulsified like cream. It doesn’t take much pressure to bypass the seal your seal was leaking before you touched it. I would go on your trip soon as you get home remove the plugs drain and wash out with new oil, if it were me I would use engine oil for that it’s cheaper then when it clean do your repairs and fill with gear oil
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Old 21 August 2021, 23:10   #13
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I recently had a bravo drive leg ingest water towards the end of our holiday. I checked the oil one day before a trip from coll to tobermoray as I do every day & the drive oil level in the header tank had risen about 25mm so probably about 150ml of water in the drive that holds just over 3l. Decision time, do I carry on as normal or continue at displacement speed or switch off the engine & run on the other, I thought 150ml in 3.0l+ isnt much,I'll carry on & see how much the level goes up or down when we get to tobermoray & reassess from there. We made tobermoray, just, the drive shit itself on the way into the marina. We were heading back to largs from there anyway so we just did it at 6kts on one engine instead of the usual 26kts.
Moral of the story is dont drive with water in the drive leg.
Ok the drive has 315hp going through it & a bit more going on but it took very little to destroy what was probably repairable had I not driven the boat. Jad I been somewhere local and could have swapped it over it would have probably cost me a set of seals as it was the drive internals were scrap
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Old 22 August 2021, 08:30   #14
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Quote:
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Hello sorry should have said. That’s how I filled it but put the screw back in the top hole to see if it would hold pressure. Could the pressure of me pushing (not overly hard) have damaged the ring? Or would it simply bypass then be ok again?
What you typically have is an o ring around the housing itself that slides into the leg casing. That part seals itself mainly by being a snug fit but on an old engine there is no harm in pulling the housing and giving both surfaces a good clean and smoothing with emery to ensure not just a clean fit ease of future removal.

From your description however, it seems like oil is bypassing the seals around the prop shaft? These are typically a steel washer and a steel springy ring encased in an open top rubber ring. They usually sit in pairs and will typically need to be the right way around.

In theory, pressurising the gearbox would push oil out. It's simply a question of how much pressure. You also have the pair of oil seals in the water pump plate for the drive shaft and you'd imagine that all being equal that under pressure the air would escape through there before oil out the other?

Anyway, if you were applying the pressure using the typical sort of oil syringe then I don't think you'd expect to see any leaking. The real clue though will be the oil. If there is any emulsion then you know you have a leak but you don't know if it just started in the last hour of running and will get worse or if it's been a minuscule weep since you bought the engine.

The other thing that you don't know is whether it's the oil seals that have perished or if you've had corrosion in the housing.

It does sound as if like me, you've bought an early 90s engine that at least the previous owner has never maintained. My engine was very clearly low hours but had also very clearly lived it's life wired into a dinghy that lived on davits, had never been flushed, hadn't been serviced for some time and had clearly lived without anodes for a period.

I'm also guessing that you've hesitated in doing the right thing and taking the leg apart after purchase because of the risk of bolts shearing but it seems to be that you've reached the point now where you need to. When you changed the impeller did you go deeper and inspect the oil seals at the top? They might also be perishing.

I'd bite the bullet, get the parts page, check the main parts are in stock somewhere and then strip the leg down and clean it all up, as Steve says, wash it and flush it all in cheap car engine oil before putting it back together comfortable that it'll now last far longer than you will own the engine for.

If you haven't already been able to do it then it's probably smart to replace the thermostat, fuel filter, pull and clean all connectors and also whip the carb off and give it a wash as you mention earlier that you've had several issues over the season. So long as you have good and equal compression on the cylinders than even the scabbiest of unloved 2 strokes can generally be made to purr like a kitten and be bulletproof.
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Old 22 August 2021, 08:35   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beamishken View Post
I recently had a bravo drive leg ingest water towards the end of our holiday. I checked the oil one day before a trip from coll to tobermoray as I do every day & the drive oil level in the header tank had risen about 25mm so probably about 150ml of water in the drive that holds just over 3l. Decision time, do I carry on as normal or continue at displacement speed or switch off the engine & run on the other, I thought 150ml in 3.0l+ isnt much,I'll carry on & see how much the level goes up or down when we get to tobermoray & reassess from there. We made tobermoray, just, the drive shit itself on the way into the marina. We were heading back to largs from there anyway so we just did it at 6kts on one engine instead of the usual 26kts.
Moral of the story is dont drive with water in the drive leg.
Ok the drive has 315hp going through it & a bit more going on but it took very little to destroy what was probably repairable had I not driven the boat. Jad I been somewhere local and could have swapped it over it would have probably cost me a set of seals as it was the drive internals were scrap
I dodged a similar bullet yesterday.
Ran my motor up on the hose and heard an unfamiliar noise from the drive.
It’s somehow got a little moisture in and damaged the top bearings.
V. Expensive to repair, but at least I’m not in the middle of the sea somewhere.
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Old 22 August 2021, 12:41   #16
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Quote:
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I dodged a similar bullet yesterday.

Ran my motor up on the hose and heard an unfamiliar noise from the drive.

It’s somehow got a little moisture in and damaged the top bearings.

V. Expensive to repair, but at least I’m not in the middle of the sea somewhere.
Yeh there not cheap for sure, fortunately the drive that failed was getting tired anyway & had suffered some corrosion to the case, it had been on 9 years & I already had a spare pair of drives so I just got lifted out & swapped the drives over with the spares. Not stripped the damaged drive yet but huge float on both input & output shafts, I'm just expecting the gears to be destroyed inside
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Old 08 September 2021, 05:11   #17
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Just to complete forum. Got oil seals replaced couldn’t get bearing race out. So done the naughty thing of taking them out with picks (being super careful to watch drive shaft) got both out and replaced now holds pressure. Props a lot tighter now (can still turn by hand but doesn’t turn like it used too in neutral when engines running) done about one hour with boat since (ongoing other issues) and it does seem to be loosening. Is it just a case of allowing them to wear slightly?
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