Lightweight 20HP

[Peter2673]

Hi

I was planning to buy a Suzuki 20HP on the basis of good reviews and it only weighs 44KG.

The new Tohatsu/Mercury/Mariner weighs 43Kg. Does anyone have views on which is the better engine?

Thanks

Pete

[jeffstevens763@g]

Tohatsue make the merc and mariner at low HP so relatively same engine I would go with any fwiw

[Peter2673]

Sorry, just to clarify, my question was whether the new Tohatsu/Mercury/Mariner is a better engine than the established and well regarded Suzuki.

P

[jeffstevens763@g]

They are all held in hi regard Peter I like the Suzukis we run merc at work and are spot on, we also ran tohatsu again bullet proof I would say buy any
http://www.reeladventurefishing.com/...tboard-values/

[Fenlander]

Have a look at the specs and features of them both as there may be something that makes you prefer one in particular. For example gearchange method/position.. tiller adjustment... tilt mechanism etc. See what deals you can get on them. Consider proximity of dealership to supply and then service or carry out warranty work.

Beyond that in the 20hp and under class broadly speaking all the major brands have proved reliable over decades.

[Peter2673]

Thanks, all.

P

[Kurt]

Hello all, Has anyone had first hand experience with the new Suzuki 20 and the new Tohatsu/Mercury 20? Know they are both good reputable companies, but would like first hand comparison information on these engines in particular.

Thanks,

Kurt

[chipko]

Hi Kurt,

Ran a new Suzuki 20 efi for three seasons, put 150hrs on it, never missed a beat...but wouldn’t expect otherwise. Great motor, instant starting, frugal, impressive hole shot, lightest in class, and a seriously satisfying growl at wot. Only negative comment....slight offbeat vibration at tickover ...minor gripe but hey ho.

Purchased ours in 2013 as the lightest and the only efi 20 on the market. Now there is a choice with the Tohatsu/Mercury/ Mariner joining the fray....all essentially the same motor and manufactured by Tohatsu.

Don’t think there is much to choose between any of them. All the major brands are going to be reliable. For myself, I might be swayed towards the Mercury as quite like the fancy multi function tiller arrangement and edgy hood design. The Tohatsu takes the prize as the lightest though at 43kg.

Perhaps the deciding factor would be who is your nearest/trusted servicing dealer. Shouldn’t go far wrong with any of these.

[beamishken]

Someone was having problems with a 25 suzuki maybe worth a pm ask his opinion

http://www.rib.net/forum/showthread.php?t=80257

[Kurt]

Thank you Beamishken and Chipko!

For fun, I called a large US dealer today that sells all the major brand outboards and asked to speak to someone with first hand knowledge of the two engines in question. Was able to speak with a man who said he had experience with both of the engines. He of course said both were excellent. I told him I wanted to choose the one that would be best for pulling the kids on wake surf boards and he said he would choose the Tohatsu because it has noticeably more low and mid range torque due to the increased displacement. He said top end they were even.

I question that a 1.8% increase in displacement (333cc vs 327cc) would provide a noticeable increase in torque, but that was the man's input. If I get others confirming that noticeable low to mid range difference, that would push me to the Tohatsu.

[jeffstevens763@g]

hi kurt

first its me thats having trouble with my suzuki 25 it had a slew bearing problem to start which was a machining problem suzuki changed the lot and sorted it, i have then a tickover problem which we think is the low pressure pump [disposable] it's one of those problems that does not occur when its at the dealers it's there at the moment so i will report on my thread when i get it sorted having said that i'm on my 5th suzuki and would buy another.
not trying to sway you but all three engines on your list are good although the tohatsu and merc are the same engine tohatsu make the engines for merc up to 30 hp i think maybe 50 hp without looking.
higher displacement is better but at that percentage hardly noticeable i would have thought, for me i would buy two props the standard you get with the engine and a lower pitch for the wakeboard stuff you then have a spare if you damage it during use i carry three 10 1/4 x 10, 11, 12. the 10 gives me real control and a crisp response in rough water so i maintain the plane for longer and easier i would do that for any of the engines anyway, dont forget yamaha too great engines ive had two of them too brilliant.

[Fenlander]

Kurt I would treat the dealer's comments with caution. They are far more likely to be based on personal brand bias, profit margin, stock position or telling you what he thinks you want to hear.

I bought my Suzuki 20 Efi a couple of years back from a multi brand dealer who I used as he was my nearest with discounted prices... but boy did he talk a load of rubbish about the outboard.

Like Jeff I can't believe a 6cc difference in cylinder capacity would translate to a noticeable difference in the way the outboard pulls away at low/medium revs. I'd say boat setup, weight carried and most important prop pitch would have a far larger effect.

The only person who would truly know would be an experienced private owner who had both Suzuki and Tohatsu fitted with the same prop pitch using one after the other on the same boat the same day.... and that's pretty unlikely.

My impressions of the Suzuki and the comments of others are all here... http://www.rib.net/forum/f36/suzuki-...iew-71464.html . I know we've had a member with the Tohatsu 20 Efi but they wrote very little of it on here.

Although I don't have a comparison with the Tohatsu I can say one thing the Suzuki 20 Efi was excellent for was picking up speed from trolling. Until I was used to it the throttle response was almost too sharp. I know they developed the ECU map to give this snap response more like (or better than) a 2-stroke while allowing the fuel input to reduce once on a steady cruise throttle opening for low fuel usage.

If I was buying again now and choosing between Efi 20hp models I'd look at dealer location... price... and any particular features of the different makes. For example the unique Mercury tiller might suit you or some other feature of another make.

[chipko]

If the new Tohatsu/Merc/Mariner’s have significally better low to midrange grunt than the Suzuki I’d be surprised. Unless of course those six extra cc’s have special powers!

Anyway, working on the assumption the Suzuki has less ‘torqs’, ours had no problems pulling wakeboards, kneeboards, toys etc. on the standard 9 1/4” x 10” prop.

Worth noting though, those Defenders your considering are heavy Mothers!

[Kurt]

Thanks guys!

Chipko,

It has to be true. When you look at Tohatsu's website they state "This 20hp battery-less electronic fuel injection four stroke has exceptional torque and top end speed, with low vibration."

When I look up the definition of exceptional I find "ex·cep·tion·al
/ˌikˈsepSH(ə)n(ə)l/Submit adjective unusual; not typical. "crimes of exceptional callousness and cruelty" synonyms: unusual, uncommon, abnormal, atypical, extraordinary, out of the ordinary, rare, unprecedented, unexpected, surprising"

The very last word/synonym is "surprising", just like you said you would be :-). Websites and salesmen never stretch the truth or lie!

To me, at least half the fun of getting any new toy is researching and comparing. Suzuki's are excellent, I have a DRZ400 in the garage that has been bullet-proof. Majority of larger salt water boats I've been seeing out here lately are running Yamaha, followed by Suzuki. If Yamaha had a "modern" offering in this range I would pick it.

[warder54]

Hi. I have the Tohatsu 20 efi on my F-Rib 360. Fantastic outboard, initially it was underpropped with the standard 9" pitch and would go like a bat out of hell out of the hole but hit the limiter on wot at around 28mph. I went up to a 13 pitch and she now hits the sweet spot at wot, I also add that I've not noticed any difference in hole shot which amazed me. The new prop has a slight cup in it's profile so perhaps gives more grip.

It's a very quiet and smooth runner but with a satisfying growl under hard acceleration. Fuel consumption is amazing; on one run up the river Tay and back covering 51 miles, at mixed throttle speeds, I only used 15ltrs, I had to measure the fuel used twice! (I'm sure the Suzuki is just as frugal) The weight distribution is biased towards the front of the engine which makes for very easy manual tilting, easier than my previous Mariner 15 2 stroke. Hope this info helps. Good luck in your hunt, whichever you decide will not disappoint I hope. This Pic was taken on the Tay trip in March this year.

[Kurt]

Thank you Warder54. Sounds like manufacturers may have to begin strengthening their transoms for the Tohatsu's exceptional torque :-)

Kurt

[funcross]

@warder54

What speed to your reach with the 13 pitch prop.
I get ready to run my frib430 with my stroke Merc. (Tohatsu) having two props 9.9x10 and x13.

Regards,
Andy

[warder54]

Hi Andy, sorry, not yet measured actual speed. Just know it feels bloody quick, I did however see 32mph on gps with the old prop on flat calm fresh water with the Tohatsu bouncing off the limiter.

[Limecc]

Originally Posted by chipko

If the new Tohatsu/Merc/Mariner’s have significally better low to midrange grunt than the Suzuki I’d be surprised. Unless of course those six extra cc’s have special powers!

They might have had special powers if the stroke was longer on the Tohatsu but I checked and they are identical. Tohatsu/Merc has enough grunt to pull taller gearing though.

Bore x stroke (mm)
Suzuki 60.4 x 57 = 327cc
Tohatsu 61.0 x 57 = 333cc

Gear ratio
Suzuki 2.08:1
Tohatsu 2.15:1

Max RPM
Suzuki 6300
Tohatsu 6100
Mercury 6200

7 years warranty for the Tohatsu makes it a clear winner for me.
5 years for Mercury and Suzuki I believe.

[vikingsmb]

Originally Posted by Limecc

They might have had special powers if the stroke was longer on the Tohatsu but I checked and they are identical. Tohatsu/Merc has enough grunt to pull taller gearing though.

Bore x stroke (mm)
Suzuki 60.4 x 57 = 327cc
Tohatsu 61.0 x 57 = 333cc

Gear ratio
Suzuki 2.08:1
Tohatsu 2.15:1

Max RPM
Suzuki 6300
Tohatsu 6100
Mercury 6200

7 years warranty for the Tohatsu makes it a clear winner for me.
5 years for Mercury and Suzuki I believe.

Tohatsu's are good engines, at my old yacht club we had a 15hp tohatsu 4 stroke on a rigiflex, now that thing shifted with that engine so quite fond of them, where i'm based now we have 4 rigiflexs 3 with 15hp yammis and 1 with 9.8 Tohatsu (4 stroke), the yammi 15 i find are sluggish, as they are heavier plus carburettor based, whereas suzzi and tohatsu are EFI engines + lighter, the one with the tohatsu engine runs quite well as tested it for our service engineer last year (before covid) and went really well. we have 6 ribs with majority of our rib fleet are 50hp suzukis which are fast (ribcraft 4.8), the 2 biggest ones have 60hp yammi and 60hp merc on them, the one with the 60hp yammi is underpowered IMO but she was built before the CE plate came in, i have driven 15hp suzukis with sea cadets but they are ok but they have prop guards on so doesnt help, hope this helps