Merc outside ram" power trim

9D280 · 13 November 2009, 13:34

OK, quick question for those of you who remember this far back.........

The old Merc "external ram" power trim - miles of hydraulic hose etc, with the pump / control unit screwed to the transom. In short I've been offered one at a very tempting price. Looked at the Microfiches, and there doesn't appear to be a trim sender. This leads me to think it could be for one of two reasons:

1) It's such an old system that they hadn't invented it yet
2) this is just a "lazy man's engine lifter", and so doesn't have the trim finesse at the bottom end of it's travel that we all know & love

- Can anyone shed any light on it? (Bottom line is the price is good if it does tilt & trim, but not if it only tilts).

Cheers,
The floating museum cutrator.

Nos4r2 · 13 November 2009, 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9D280

OK, quick question for those of you who remember this far back.........

The old Merc "external ram" power trim - miles of hydraulic hose etc, with the pump / control unit screwed to the transom. In short I've been offered one at a very tempting price. Looked at the Microfiches, and there doesn't appear to be a trim sender. This leads me to think it could be for one of two reasons:

1) It's such an old system that they hadn't invented it yet

Can't answer that one-I've had an external tilt engine, but it didn't have a trim sender.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9D280

2) this is just a "lazy man's engine lifter", and so doesn't have the trim finesse at the bottom end of it's travel that we all know & love

Nope,more the other way round. The tilt is at trim speed plus a bit, due to the angle it works at, but the trim works at normal speed.[/quote]

- Can anyone shed any light on it? (Bottom line is the price is good if it does tilt & trim, but not if it only tilts).

Cheers,
The floating museum cutrator. [/QUOTE]

If you're thinking about retrofitting it, make sure it fits to te saddle properly. The blueband I had with it had a beefier mount on the saddle than the non-trim version and the hole spacings were different to the shock absorber equipped saddle.

Shaz · 13 November 2009, 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Cheers,
The floating museum cutrator.

Wondered why we hadn't heard from you in a few days, obviously it's just that no-one's been asking complicated enough questions !

Nos4r2 · 14 November 2009, 05:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaz

Wondered why we hadn't heard from you in a few days, obviously it's just that no-one's been asking complicated enough questions !

9D280,

While I remember, if the hydraulic lines aren't 100%, don't buy it unless you can find a source for the fittings. New lines will be a tad expensive and the fittings aren't an off the shelf item. Mine had had it and making my own up wasn't an option for that reason.

Mercury · 14 November 2009, 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9D280

OK, quick question for those of you who remember this far back.........

The old Merc "external ram" power trim - miles of hydraulic hose etc, with the pump / control unit screwed to the transom. In short I've been offered one at a very tempting price. Looked at the Microfiches, and there doesn't appear to be a trim sender. This leads me to think it could be for one of two reasons:

1) It's such an old system that they hadn't invented it yet
2) this is just a "lazy man's engine lifter", and so doesn't have the trim finesse at the bottom end of it's travel that we all know & love

- Can anyone shed any light on it? (Bottom line is the price is good if it does tilt & trim, but not if it only tilts).

Cheers,
The floating museum cutrator.

Personally I thought the old system was a bag of dogs deposit! Extremely unreliable & cumbersome with all the piping and pump under the seat. I have on old Merc 50 Four cylinder Two stroke, circa 85. Bought a Three ram set up from a 70 hp. circa 93. Sat down and figured out a way to convert it to fit the 50hp, All it took was a hack saw and some elbow grease, fitted a up/down switch to the throttle control and it works a treat. I paid £83 for the t&t off ebay £10 for some ally welding & about £30 for trim gauge & sender unit, £25 for the up/down switch. And when my brother saw the result he couldn't wait to do his. (same engine) So it was back on ebay looking for another t&t. Ten days later we had another, cost £75 to buy, spent a few more beer tokens and never looked back. Its absolutely fab. They are residing on 4 Mtr Seariders. I may take some photos if anyone wants to see them.

9D280 · 16 November 2009, 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

While I remember, if the hydraulic lines aren't 100%, don't buy it unless you can find a source for the fittings.

Oh? I have a dead cylinder to try out - it seems to mechanically "plug'n'play on the current clamp / swivel hardware I must admit I've not tried to play wit hthe hydraulic threads yet......

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

New lines will be a tad expensive and the fittings aren't an off the shelf item. Mine had had it and making my own up wasn't an option for that reason.

You're not kididng! (and I had hoped to do so) Maybe need to look into that a bit deeper....

9D280 · 16 November 2009, 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury

Personally I thought the old system was a bag of dogs deposit! Extremely unreliable & cumbersome with all the piping and pump under the seat. I have on old Merc 50 Four cylinder Two stroke, circa 85. Bought a Three ram set up from a 70 hp. circa 93. Sat down and figured out a way to convert it to fit the 50hp,

Unreliable as in the hoses or the hardware? I have to admit I'm not overly keen on the extra plumbing, but I reckoned with some "bespoke" pipes & fittings I could keep it neat, and also keep the transom weight down.

The p!ss easy way of doing this is to find the leg (or "driveshaft housing" to give it the official name) off one of the rare ones that were produed for about a year with the 3 ram PTT before the Onboard Oil injection engine arrived on the scene. The really annoying bit was I saw one on the back of a boat on Saturday.......

I do have a 3 ram PT complete with clamps & swivel that was destined for another project, but unless I can find that elusive leg, phrases involving chocolate teapots come to mind...

Mercury · 16 November 2009, 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9D280

Unreliable as in the hoses or the hardware? I have to admit I'm not overly keen on the extra plumbing, but I reckoned with some "bespoke" pipes & fittings I could keep it neat, and also keep the transom weight down.

The p!ss easy way of doing this is to find the leg (or "driveshaft housing" to give it the official name) off one of the rare ones that were produed for about a year with the 3 ram PTT before the Onboard Oil injection engine arrived on the scene. The really annoying bit was I saw one on the back of a boat on Saturday.......

I do have a 3 ram PT complete with clamps & swivel that was destined for another project, but unless I can find that elusive leg, phrases involving chocolate teapots come to mind...

Unreliable as in hardware, the limit switch lasted about a nanosecond. We were constantly having to reduce the pump pressure to move the rams. What do mean by "driveshaft housing"? is it the mid section? If so keep an eye on ebay, I have seen quite a few on there.

9D280 · 17 November 2009, 09:15

Ok, That's not so bad. Switches can be bypassed, and I do wonder having seen the setup if I could replace it with a proxy sensor & put a relay in the relative warmth & dry of under the hood to remove the mechanical element from the wet area & seal it in properly.

I also have a plan with the hydraulics to put a "bypass" valve between the up & down circuits, simply because it means when I get home & need to drop the engine, I can simply open the valve & drop it manually, rather than having to faff about climbing into the boat, switching on the main isolator...

Yeah, it's the midsection. Problem is there is only one version that will actually fit between a clamshell head & gearbox & still bolt to the tiller tube on the swivel I have. Unfortunately it was only made for about a year, so they don't come up as often as you might think......

Mercury · 17 November 2009, 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9D280

Problem is there is only one version that will actually fit between a clamshell head & gearbox & still bolt to the tiller tube on the swivel I have. Unfortunately it was only made for about a year, so they don't come up as often as you might think......

When I bought my T&T there were no versions at all to fit between the power head and g/box. I had to "re manufacture" the swivel bracket to make it fit.

Nos4r2 · 17 November 2009, 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9D280

Oh? I have a dead cylinder to try out - it seems to mechanically "plug'n'play on the current clamp / swivel hardware I must admit I've not tried to play wit hthe hydraulic threads yet......

You're not kididng! (and I had hoped to do so) Maybe need to look into that a bit deeper....

It's the hydraulic line end fittings that are hard to find-I suspect they were only made for this application.

9D280 · 18 November 2009, 10:23

Nos,

Yeah, had a closer look last night - they are quite obscure. IF I can get the rest together, it won't be too difficult to turn up a couple of adaptors to convert the thread to a standard brake hose size. - And there's a load of post bore passage plugs that could be used too (hopefully a more sensible thread on them, but not pulled one out yet)

Merc,

There is a variant takes the "internal" PTT- but it was only made for a year, so a bit like the proverbial rocking horse droppings.....

The Rams I;ve been offered are still attatched to their original clamp / swivel. The easy answer I supect is lying in a pile of dead engines...... Bottom line is if my swivel bracket fits between those clamps, problem solved. (the powered ram fits my swivel bracket)