New Yamaha 315 hp diesel with hydra drive

[searafting.no]

Is there anyone that have performance numbers and torque data of the new Yamaha 315 diesel engine that was released at the southampton boat show.

Revenger had a 29 with this inboard, any one know what speeds compared to the Yanmar 315?

The Yamaha engine is allso a 4,2 l Toyota block so i guess that the yamaha is the same high quality as the Yanmar engines, but what about the new hydra drive with duo prop, can this drive handel all the torque this engine produces when drive rough in big waves?

And is this a better drive than the mercruiser drives?

I know allot of people that have problems with blown mercruiser diesel x and allso the much stronger Bravo one XR drive combined with the Yanmar 315 engine.

[Flavio]

Originally Posted by searafting.no

Is there anyone that have performance numbers and torque data of the new Yamaha 315 diesel engine that was released at the southampton boat show.

Revenger had a 29 with this inboard, any one know what speeds compared to the Yanmar 315?

The Yamaha engine is allso a 4,2 l Toyota block so i guess that the yamaha is the same high quality as the Yanmar engines, but what about the new hydra drive with duo prop, can this drive handel all the torque this engine produces when drive rough in big waves?

And is this a better drive than the mercruiser drives?

I know allot of people that have problems with blown mercruiser diesel x and allso the much stronger Bravo one XR drive combined with the Yanmar 315 engine.

I briefly spoke to the Yamaha guy at the SBS stand. He told me the Revenger 29 at the show had the 275hp Yamaha, not the 315hp. It accelerated twice as fast, 6s compared to 12s for the Yanmar engine. Lost 2-3 knots on top speed but that is because the engine had less hp.
Apparently the 315hp engine is brand new but the Twin Rotating Prop Hydradrive has been available outside of Europe for a couple of years but Yamaha had some sort of agreement with Volvo Penta not to offer it within Europe.
I don't know if the Hydradrive is better than a Bravo 1 or Bravo 3. Certainly Yamaha has a veru good reputation for reliability and the Bravo 3 drive has a chequered history.

[hard1]

Originally Posted by Flavio

Certainly Yamaha has a veru good reputation for reliability and the Bravo 3 drive has a chequered history.

[DGR]

...and the Bravo 3 drive has a chequered history....

A 8m BWM RIB is just being fitted with a Yanmar 315HP and one of the new Bravo 3 X legs down at the local boatyard. The B3X legs looks like it has been redesigned quite sigificantly since I (very briefly) considered it - lots of cooling fins and channels on top of the casing - I presume to address some of the heating issues.

It will be interesting to see how it goes with that combination (and whether it lasts )......

Dylan...

[searafting.no]

I know that the new bravo x drives look different on the outside, but they are the same on the inside as the late old style bravo x drives.

A bravo 3 drive has almost non prop slip and therfore i think that this drive will break earlier than a bravo 1 drive that have more prop slip.

And like i said i know people that break bravo one xr drives behind the Yanmar 315 and the xr i s supposed to be much stronger than the x drives.

[hamadi]

Yamaha and Yanmar use 4.2l Toyota blocks. Yamaha 421 STIP1(265-270hp) and STIP2(240-250hp) are identical except the turbo. Information I have is the 250hp is for use up to 500 hours / year and the 270hp is advised when used less than 200 hours. 300hp for the same block is quite high and I believe it may be related to several reported cracked blocks and piston damage in Yanmar engines.
The "Yamaha Duoprop" has been in service for several years (Asia Oceania Middle east) and is preferred to standard drive for use on lighter boats.

[swginn]

Yamaha have put up some photos and specs on their UK website:

http://www.yamaha-motor.co.uk/produc...nts/sbs_05.jsp

Finally a 315hp that will be reliable and have that lovely hydra-drive!! Redbay 8.4m with a Yammy 315 in the back, mmmmmm!! I'll stop dreaming now

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by hamadi

300hp for the same block is quite high and I believe it may be related to several reported cracked blocks and piston damage in Yanmar engines.

To the best of my knowledge, the cracked block problem with Yanmar 300 engines is attributed to the different engine mount used by Yanmar as their marinisation kit and other engine component installation obstructs the engine mount position that Yamaha use. I can't comment on the piston damage though, I've not heard of piston failure on these engines in the UK... (yet?).

[hamadi]

Piston problem info I got is from AIFO marine dealer who had the problem on his LUHRS (yanmar / shaft) and did a market investigation to find similar problems.

[craig_c]

Originally Posted by hamadi

Yamaha and Yanmar use 4.2l Toyota blocks. Yamaha 421 STIP1(265-270hp) and STIP2(240-250hp) are identical except the turbo. Information I have is the 250hp is for use up to 500 hours / year and the 270hp is advised when used less than 200 hours. 300hp for the same block is quite high and I believe it may be related to several reported cracked blocks and piston damage in Yanmar engines.
The "Yamaha Duoprop" has been in service for several years (Asia Oceania Middle east) and is preferred to standard drive for use on lighter boats.

Surely the engines can take more than that. They would need to in a commercial environment. Our 370 sti (165hp) has done 200hrs leisure use and i'm quite sure it will be used more in the winter

[searafting.no]

We have Yanamar 315 engines and we have run 250 without any problems, the same charter boats in sweden run 600-700 hours a year with out any engine problems.

[Solent Ranger]

Originally Posted by Flavio

I don't know if the Hydradrive is better than a Bravo 1 or Bravo 3. Certainly Yamaha has a veru good reputation for reliability and the Bravo 3 drive has a chequered history.

I have been running the Hydradrive leg for 2 years with no problems. OK, so I'm running it on the 4 cylnider 370 sti, but it is the most wonderful leg I've ever used. I drive a lot of boats during the course of a year, mainly with either Volvo or Mercruiser legs - when I get back on my own boat it is such a pleasure not to have to wait for the grinding or cruching - I LOVE MY LEG!!!

I would spec any boat now with Yamaha, my 370 is now on 920 hours, it is not even run in! It starts first time every time, it runs like a dream with no smoke and I can talk at normal voice when at the helm. It's economical - 0.8 litres/nm. There is no massive turbo lag as on the Yanmar - bugger all happens up to about 2.5 k revs then turbo kicks in and it leaps of liek a scolded rabbit - part of the reason why the Bravo 3 has suffered, particularly with the 315!

I'm a Yamaha convert, as far as I'm concerened it's the only engine/drive package to have.

[Dirk Diggler]

Originally Posted by Solent Ranger

bugger all happens up to about 2.5 k revs then turbo kicks in and it leaps of liek a scolded rabbit - part of the reason why the Bravo 3 has suffered, particularly with the 315!

Please tell us more, I'm always eager to learn.

[Jelly]

When I was talking to the Yam guys they were saying the first 315 in the country was fitted to the one of the fishing type boats on the pontoons, it was a USA/Candain built, West coast. I'll try to find the name tonight.

I was told that the new transom shield had twin seals on the stearing shaft unlike the old ones with a single seal.
Jelly

[hamadi]

Craig,
you're right, you'll have no problems with your 3.7 l engine in particular if it's not on a heavy boat. figures are 3.7 liter for 165hp give a ratio of 44-45 hp per litre and 300hp with a 4.2 liter has a ratio of 71-72 hp per liter that is considered very high for diesel engine ( "norm" is around 50-60 hp / liter).
For instance with Aifo 300hp are delivered with a 5.6 l engine for the most powerful version of the block (54 hp/ l)
Cummins/mercruiser 4.2 l are in the 300hp range (same as Yanmar) and use is limited to 300 hours / year with 1 hour of full load (200rpm less than max) for every 8 hours reduced load. Same block is also available in 200hp light duty version to be used up to 500 hours / year! why such a difference??? the answer is the market demand for light and compact engines that deliver enough power to compete with gas engines.
All commercial engines have less than 50hp/l and rpm less than 2800.
The other problem is that reliable stern legs are not available for high power engines. Better go for shaft if above 300hp (or service and service and service again)

[DGR]

Where are all these restrictions listed?

My Yanmar 315HP does way more than 1 hour in every 8 at max continuous (3600 rpm) and both it and the B2X leg currently appear to be in good health (touch wood, fingers crossed, ). It's also done 200+ hours in the last 8 weeks.

Nowhere does the manual differentiate between operating procedures for commercial and private usage. The limits I observe are to service on time, no more than 2 minutes at max revs (3800) at a time, and to let it warm up and cool down properly on startup and switch off (at least 5 minutes).

D...

[DGR]

Originally Posted by hamadi

Piston problem info I got is from AIFO marine dealer who had the problem on his LUHRS (yanmar / shaft) and did a market investigation to find similar problems.

OK - shaft and cracked piston...

Originally Posted by hamadi

The other problem is that reliable stern legs are not available for high power engines. Better go for shaft if above 300hp (or service and service and service again)

OK - so shaft and cracked piston?...

[hamadi]

Problem 1: high power / l should be avoided
Problem 2: better go for shaft when have 300hp or more
I was referring to the load on transmission and not to the correlation between type of propulsion and engine displacement.
most inboard engines with high power run less than 2800rpm and have a power/ displacement ration under 50/1
sorry for the confusion

[hamadi]

Originally Posted by DGR

Where are all these restrictions listed?

My Yanmar 315HP does way more than 1 hour in every 8 at max continuous (3600 rpm) and both it and the B2X leg currently appear to be in good health (touch wood, fingers crossed, ). It's also done 200+ hours in the last 8 weeks.

Nowhere does the manual differentiate between operating procedures for commercial and private usage. The limits I observe are to service on time, no more than 2 minutes at max revs (3800) at a time, and to let it warm up and cool down properly on startup and switch off (at least 5 minutes).

D...

I had the information when opting for yamaha sterndrives. 240hp for 500hrs / year and 270hp for 200hrs/year.
similar 4.2 l engine is on cummins/mercruiser packages. The restriction is clearly stated on their PDF files (technical specifications) for all powers available with the same block.
the 500 hours/year is clearly stated in the document through the following link:
http://www.cmdmarine.com/PDFs/mercur...d_warranty.pdf
4.2 l delivering 200hp is described for recreational and light duty use
http://www.cmdmarine.com/PDFs/4081834_1104.pdf
same engine delivering 320hp is limited to 300hrs /year
http://www.gce.cummins.com/mce/mce_4...f?SMSESSION=NO

Similar information is available on AIFO datasheets for 5.6 l diesel inboards. 500 hours when power is 230hp and 200hrs when power is 300hp!!!
newer AIFO engines / pleasure duty allow up to 300hrs/year
http://www.maesco.com/products/mar_p..._pleasure.html

the
the 200 hours/year is also clearly stated

[DGR]

OK - thanks for that.

It may be me being pedantic - but that is the Mercruiser Diesel warranty - not the Yanmar - they don't say that in theirs (even if it does share the same engine block).

Wouldn't those 'rules' make it very difficult to claim anything under warranty? If you can only go at 3600 RPM for 7 and a bit minutes per hour, it is quite limiting!! And if it is defined (by Yanmar) as the Max Continous Operating Speed then that isn't very continuous...



D...