Outboard engine height - Page 2

Matspain · 04 July 2016, 22:43

Also I've never driven anything but a rib and I must say they feel very safe.
Would the fletcher be completely different as it's only 1000euros as is.
Like I said I'm new to boats and have no one to ask these stupid questions so bare with me😕

beamishken · 04 July 2016, 22:51

This is the back of my 3.6m rib with a 40 yam which is about 20kg lighter than your engine (like a tank of fuel in the stern) you can see the waterline just below the ski eyes so plenty freeboard and I'd trust my life to a rib any day in comparison to a similar size hard boat
& I grew up with hard boats!

Matspain · 05 July 2016, 15:25

So is cutting the transom an option?and how would I seal it again?

Xk59D · 05 July 2016, 15:50

I would never cut the transom in this case, that is proper last resort time.

I am amazed someone is suggesting you cut that tbh rather than the proper fix of sell the engine.

If you do cut it you risk freeboard issue and resale will be tough as no one will want a short shaft on there.

Swapping engines won't be expensive, you may even gain!

Last Tango · 05 July 2016, 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matspain

So is cutting the transom an option?and how would I seal it again?

Have you worked out how you'd explain this to your insurance, how you'd explain it to the next owner, how they'd explain it to their insurance. What are you going to do with the RCD plate? it no longer conforms.

Don't think you can build this up again later. It'll never be right, remember it carries the weight of the engine and transmits it's thrust to the boat, you can't just "stick" a bit back on top, the whole transom would need replaced.

50mm of water swilling about in the bottom of the boat isn't an issue for kitted divers but it'd be a pain in the 4ss otherwise.........

Ron Noco · 05 July 2016, 18:15

Is it an option to put a bracket on the transom that allows the outboard to sit lower? Something like a jack plate...

jeffstevens763@g · 05 July 2016, 18:36

Before you start cutting is there a leg extension available or chop the engine in for a long shaft. Have a look for someone breaking one see if you can swap the leg.speak to
Bill higham marine outboard breakers.

Cheers

spartacus · 05 July 2016, 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matspain

This is the boat I could buy. Are they any good and would the motor fit it?
Thanks again

Forget the Fletcher. These are 80s boats, and frankly have the handling characteristics of a Vauxhall Viva negotiating the Kyber Pass.

There's no point cutting corners on the engine front. Be prepared to travel for a decent 2-stroke, and even increase the budget. The 40hp on the back of Beamshaken's rib is a Yamaha 40V (3-cilinders). Arguably one of the best power to weight engines out there, maybe only second to the 50G model which are like rocking horse poo to find.

69cmw · 05 July 2016, 22:09

A 80's Fletcher is probably built better than 70% of the new horse shi5e boats built these days.

A RCD plate on a 80's boat??? WTF

Last Tango · 05 July 2016, 22:29

It's the rib we're talking about...that's never an 80s boat and I'd bet it's RCD plated

beamishken · 05 July 2016, 22:48

The best argument against cutting the transom is your insurance won't like it or it won't comply with rcd both prety poor arguments
The fact is there will be less stress on the transom as the leverage will be reduced you will lose a little freeboard at the rear but unless you drive everywhere in reverse of sit fishing with 6 sumo wrestlers you'll never notice the reduced freeboard.
Many rib type boats have open transom shield with self bailing decks you drive away and the water runs out
This applies to any rib in that you can swamp it and drive out of it the water runs over the transom then out the elephants trunk
With a lower transom you may get wet feet a little more often but I doubt you'll be wearing your best dancing shoes and it's a few seconds to dump it out the trunk
I'd imagine the people who are making the most noise about standard shaft engines being a nono have never even been in a boat with one fitted
I've owned one for 15 years and I don't regret fitting it for a moment & if anyone is around the clyde (largs) let me know you can try the boat and I doubt anyone could genuinely pick fault with the boat
It's all well and good saying sell your engine and buy another but it isn't that simple at that age there are so many lemons about finding a good one could be time consuming expensive and somewhat of a lottery
Everyone seems to think your engine is totally undesirable so is virtually unsaleable so probably not worth a lot so you'll be selling cheap and buying expensive in all probability.
If you do decide to cut the transom you'll need to round off the edge of the cut and glass over the top edge to re seal the exposed ply edge the flowcoat to finish
Even if you do want to change engines later you can always find another standard shaft to fit which will be cheaper to buy than the equivalent long shaft
Plenty of zap cats thundercats etc use standard shaft engines so they are out there

papajoe · 05 July 2016, 22:49

Bolt on a jackplate Jack Plate JPL 4000 Adj. Outboard Boat Jackplate | eBay

not made to drop a engine lower but can be done without cutting the transom up. No brainer for the money

Last Tango · 05 July 2016, 23:27

Insurance won't like it = won't pay out on a claim or won't insure you.

Get your feet wet......and everything that's at deck level. If the engine's relief exhaust ports end up underwater it could be very difficult to start or worse,
boats with "open transoms" have weather-decks (sealed and above waterline.) A 4mtr boat is not going to have a deck above the water line.
If you get a breakdown the boat will "weather-cock" down wind (every powerboat does that) and you could be confronted with the prospect of taking the cover of a powerhead that's only a couple of inches above the water with waves washing into the tray while you're trying to sort it.

No it's not going to sink because you cut 5" off the transom but the boat could end up a PITA dog that you can't give away.

You could probably pick up all the parts to convert the engine to longshaft or buy a blown LS engine for a couple of hundred pounds.

Sort it right or you'll spend your time on the water wishing you had.

beamishken · 06 July 2016, 00:13

What a load of bollocks come try a boat and I'll prove you wrong
My boat sits at rest with 50mm of water on the deck as far forward as the console anything else runs out the trunk take a look at the picture The ports are well clear of the water and the power head even further out
As for insurance why would they not pay out its like saying they won't pay out because you changed the seating arrangement and altered the handling but does anyone care when they move consoles or seating? No they get on with it
People convert from petrol to diesel inboard to outboard and get insurance many boats were offered with long or standard transoms why would that void insurance
The fact is you don't have a good reason for saying standard shafts are a nono so come up with the insurance cop out
As for taking weather over the stern if I'm in trouble first thing is chuck the anchor or bucket on a rope to keep the boat head to wind

Davie · 06 July 2016, 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by spartacus

Forget the Fletcher. These are 80s boats, and frankly have the handling characteristics of a Vauxhall Viva negotiating the Kyber Pass.

There's no point cutting corners on the engine front. Be prepared to travel for a decent 2-stroke, and even increase the budget. The 40hp on the back of Beamshaken's rib is a Yamaha 40V (3-cilinders). Arguably one of the best power to weight engines out there, maybe only second to the 50G model which are like rocking horse poo to find.

One can only assume you have never heard of Baby Bertha nor Old Nail.

Last Tango · 06 July 2016, 08:49

If you think paddling about in 50mm of water on your deck is acceptable then maybe your level of tolerance is just more than mine. Yes it'll run out when you move off but I'd rather it wasn't there in the first place.
The MCA survey requirements for coding (MGN280) makes countless reference to freeboard and compromising that would be a serious issue for them and your insurance....It was mentioned in an MAIB report of an incident in Loch Ryan.
Tossing an anchor or bucket over will turn you head to wind but the engine is still 5" closer to the water than it should be.
His RIB is probably worth twice what the engine is. Why would you butcher it for the sake of the few pounds it would cost to convert the engine to long shaft.

jeffstevens763@g · 06 July 2016, 08:52

have a look at woods of crediton ex admiralty 40 hp from £500 well cared for engines as an option.

scrub that they are only short shaft engines

spartacus · 06 July 2016, 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davie

One can only assume you have never heard of Baby Bertha nor Old Nail.

The 500bhp+ Firenzas were in a class of their own!

My memory of Vauxhall Vivas was being informed that the steering column needed greased to get it through it's MOT!

beamishken · 06 July 2016, 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Last Tango

If you think paddling about in 50mm of water on your deck is acceptable then maybe your level of tolerance is just more than mine. Yes it'll run out when you move off but I'd rather it wasn't there in the first place.
The MCA survey requirements for coding (MGN280) makes countless reference to freeboard and compromising that would be a serious issue for them and your insurance....It was mentioned in an MAIB report of an incident in Loch Ryan.
Tossing an anchor or bucket over will turn you head to wind but the engine is still 5" closer to the water than it should be.
His RIB is probably worth twice what the engine is. Why would you butcher it for the sake of the few pounds it would cost to convert the engine to long shaft.

The point I was making about the 50mm of water was if you do ship a wave over the stern because it's a rib the water will self bail unlike a hard boat which will continue sitting deeper and deeper until it inevitably sinks
Clearly we don't sit with 50mm of water slopping about in the boat all the time
I'd imagine the coding rules refer to hard boat freeboard and wasn't the boat that sank in Loch Ryan a hard boat?
Why is doing a minor alteration like fitting a standard shaft engine such a major issue when people on here chop the hell out of boats in the name of improving them
The ops boat is prety useless as it is and he has a no cost option to improve it so he can use it
Probably the only thing stopping him from enjoying his boat is people who have no experience of standard shaft engines but read on a forum there a bad idea

idsebby · 08 July 2016, 22:01

Find a Johnson or Evinrude 40hp with a blown power head. All you need is to take the gearcase off and then the leg. These engines are the same from the early 80s to 2005. They are not hard to find and its not a hard job at all. Probably find one going for a couple hundred. This is arguably way less work then cutting the transom. Which involves re-bracing fiberglassing and painting. Then you can sell your old gear case and probably make back the money. Just make sure you check the donor gear case for water in the oil (milky oil) or black oil. Really gonna be cheaper this way and you won't have to chop a perfectly good boat.