Performance v Economy - Page 2

Dirk Diggler · 29 December 2002, 19:12

I have heard a few stories about Yanmars breaking, so I have started a new thread.

crazyhorse · 29 December 2002, 19:17

So you rate the Kad then DO YA.

crazyhorse · 29 December 2002, 19:20

Whats the prices of them Yankee Diesels you have and will the Bravo1 take the power?

Dirk Diggler · 29 December 2002, 19:20

No, I didn't say that. After all, I don't have any experience of either engines. I did have a scumsucker with AQAD 41's, and didn't have any problems with them.

What I meant was that the Yanmars seem to break.

Dirk Diggler · 29 December 2002, 19:23

You've been on the wacky baccy again, I don't have yankee diesels, they are yankee petrols.

crazyhorse · 29 December 2002, 19:43

Well, sorry for diversifying.

Im interested in seeing weather we can save some money and get to the bottom of this outboard engine Mine field and help him get a engine cheaper or the best he can get based on others experience.

The debate on Diesl should be on the other thread.

crazyhorse · 29 December 2002, 19:54

What engines would everybody recomend and why.

Also what price can you get them in Delivered to the U.K with International warrantee.

Daniel · 29 December 2002, 19:56

Back to the matter in hand...

IMHO the only outboards (i know very little about diesels) worth having are Yamaha or Mercury (Mariner). This stands for old, new, 2 or 4 stroke. The only alternative 4-stroke i would consider is a honda.

Reasons...

...experience, i've had most makes over the last 6-7 years, from a reliable 1972 Merc to a useless late 90's envirude. Sizes have varied from 3.3hp (my current wing engine) to 200 (a crappie suzuki).

I stand by to be shouted at - but that's my opinion.

Daniel

crazyhorse · 29 December 2002, 20:00

Daniel,

Your Crappie Suzukie was it a new engine and was it 200hp four stroke or two.

Daniel · 29 December 2002, 20:05

I thought some one would ask when i wrote that, it was just an example - i must have experience of, say 30 engines, being involved in scouts, sailing club, and on about my 5th boat myself.

The suzuki 200 was a v6 2-stroke with twin spark heads, went like stink - when it went. circa '92 i think.

If anyone thinks it would be constructive i could recall most of the engines i think, along with a breif history???

Daniel

crazyhorse · 29 December 2002, 20:13

Thanks Daniel,

Sorry about asking the one question you new someone would ask.You would recomend Yamaha and Mercury, in I presume 2 stroke or Honda in 4 stroke.

I have a Honda 30 hp electrick start but at this stage cant recomend it as havnt used it yet.

Cant waight till I do.

Crazyhorse

Daniel · 29 December 2002, 20:15

Merc 2-stroke, had some, very good

Merc 4-stroke, had, still got

Yam 2-stroke, had loads, on my boat still

Yam 4-stroke, had, still got

Honda 2-stroke - do they exsist?
Honda 4-stroke, never had, but would consider, good reputation, but apparently technology is older than Merc and Yam therefore they are heavier.

Interested to hear reports about your new engine

crazyhorse · 29 December 2002, 20:19

Sure will do.

gavin · 29 December 2002, 21:05

Chris myself and Tim run 2 x 75 hp Fich ram Evinrudes at wot we use abot 1.5 l per nm this is the absolute worst however reducing our speed from say 35 kts to 17 knots according to our fuel computer our range for 100 litres of fuel would be over 200 nm.I used to run an old 50 hp mercury 2 stroke 25 litres got me 20 miles, now tripling the hp and running Fichts, two of them their combined usage for the same 20 miles would be 30 litres , this is only 5 l worse per 20 nm with 3 times the hp and a much reduced ratio of two stroke aswell.Fichts are supposed to be 30% more efficient, they have reduced emissions,no carbs ,it is done tro fuel injection, they are easy on two stroke but you must use injection 2 stroke, with carb x an additive to reduce varnishing, it is about 33 euro a gallon.I would still recommend Ficht as a good powerful and economic engine to run gavin

Chris Murray · 30 December 2002, 19:56

Hi Chris, Brian, "Zod 550" Gavin, Daniel, Crazyhorse and Dirk,

Thank you all for your input - Greatly appreciated!

It has certainly been helpful and now I shall have an idea what to look for at Earls Court this weekend! OK, so it is a bit early - but my research needs to be thorough and I really do want to get the most appropriate boat and engine combination for 2004.

Thanks again for your guidance.

Happy New Year!

Chris.

Manos · 30 December 2002, 20:32

I believe that when you look @ prices of outboard engines you should seriously considering importing them from South Africa. They are CE marked and for mine (200 VMax Yam 2-stroke NEVER 4-STROKE for me) paid last year £4,200.00 (I think this year is about £5,500 or £6,000.00). Transportation costs about £ 100-200 and you only pay the VAT in the UK as South African imports are expempt of taxes.
However, I do not know what price one pays for 4-stroke engines but I can find out if any one is interested.

dgpw · 31 December 2002, 10:29

Hi

The choice of engine depends on the use that you are going to have for it. 4 strokes are very good at running at tick over hour after hour so if you are going to spend most time at slow speed then go for the 4 stroke. If however you would like lots of top end power the 2 stroke is a better bet as you will find that they will have far more power through the whole of the rev range 4 strokes tend to be week at the top of their revs.

If you are going to be towing the boat then a 4 stroke can be substantially heavier than a 2 stroke.

Lots and lots of use can be expensive on any of the 2 strokes as as well as the increased fuel usage you also have the oil to keep filling as well.

I have found from personal experience that the merc 4 stroke tends to provide more power than a Honda 4 stroke. Both 75 hp on identical boats. though the Honda is slightly more economical but not much. The Honda 75 is a civic engine and was not designed for marine use. Both are reliable though the Honda tends to have it’s cooling system block up more easily. The Honda 40 also does this as on a hot day salt can block the tell tail. I just carry a pin.

as for bigger engines there are masses of threads on the advantages and disadvantages of 2 stroke / 4 stroke but my favourite is the Yamaha 200 hpdi as it is economical and provides loads of power. The Fitch are much quieter and the 175 which I believe is a 60 deg v is a great engine. The 225 optimax are very good and have a really nice noise to them though they occasionally have problems with their injectors. If I had to buy one I would go for either a yam 200 hpdi or for the optimax 150hp or 225hp. For smaller engines. Twin 60 4 stroke yamy’s are very economical and provide loads of power but is would be more tempted by either a merc 75 / 90 or a 115 4 stroke

More than 115hp go 2 stroke less than go 4 stroke. remember spesilist oil costs.

DGPW

I will go back to sleep now.

Alan · 31 December 2002, 15:22

that the ratio of useful info vs antagonistic posts seems to be going the wrong way these days. Ah well.

Chris, I have run Optimax and Yamaha HPDI (The third type of fuel injected outboard what Brian forgot about!) as well as old style carb 2 stroke. If you want a 2 stroke go for fuel injected (fich, opti, hpdi) over conventional no question. Opti's are great, HPDI's are better but considerably more expensive. On the size of RIB you are talking about 4 stroke is a good possibility as well but IMHO forget about honda's cos they are too damn heavy! Ideal size has got to be around 90-150 hp absolute max. (on a 6m ish RIB that is).

Outboards in this country are a rip off (like many other things.) There are plenty of grey import opportunities - at the end of the day its your call as to whether the savings outweigh any potential warranty hassles. I bought new UK with the Opti from TL Harvey in the West Mids who did me a good deal. The HPDI is UK new spec but came with the Scorpion when I bought it.

Have fun in your decision anyway. When are you going to LBS?

Alan

crazyhorse · 31 December 2002, 16:42

Its a nightmare knowing which way to jump on this topic.

I personly would speak to Hugo Montgomery Swan @ rib international ,for an objective recomendation/ view.

Not sure what his web address is,maybe somebody else can help on this.

Good luck

Crazyhorse

Chris Murray · 31 December 2002, 16:48

Hello Manos, dgpw and Alan,

Thank you all for your excellent input. It looks like I should seriously consider a fuel-injected two-stroke as the way forward.

I enjoy speed (hence the relatively large engine in my present boat) and I do tend to use my 10' 2" Zodiac (8hp Yamaha) more like a "Mako" - with my daughter as movable ballast to trim the boat. A distinguished gentleman in a Fairey Huntsman once commented that we (the boat) had been "showing a lot of bottom" in Southampton Water!

Subject to selling my Falcon 23, I would love to get a new RIB this season but my wife tells me I have about 14-years' catching-up to do on house-related jobs this year. Strange how this exactly matches the period over which I have owned "AriesII"!

I shall be going to LBS on Saturday - Only to research, unfortunately!

Best wishes,

Chris.