please help needed outboard again

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by arkamelis

Hi beamishken
yes more then lightly was this he was trying to explain to me, did say he worked on the same engine as mine few days ago and these were in a very poor state, and would pay to check the condition of mine

Carbs are a logical first port of call, nowadays modern fuel seems to leave more residue when it evaporates off after storage.
Cleaning them is often a free fix if you do the labour yourself so its a logical first step before spending money on expensive ignition parts.

[arkamelis]

thank you guys
i will start taking them off tomorrow, i was going to see if anyone local as a ultra sonic cleaner, or airline.
i will let you know how its goes

[beamishken]

You can buy an ultrasonic bath realy cheap now and there handy for all sorts of cleaning jobs
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F122675636535

[arkamelis]

been to boat today and took carbs off, was surprised how easy the job was, so workshop tomorrow for clean down, going for alcohol and airline

thanks for the link beamishken

[arkamelis]

ok so today i have stripped down the carbs and got to be honest, there was no debris,slim, or build up inside them, they looked very clear, so anyway stripped them down and cleaned with alcohol and blowed with airline, also took out the bolt in the bottom of the pots and again pretty clean and o ring were fine, tested the floats and shut off valve and working fine. so all cleaned and put back together.
im not sure if this may of fixed the problem, i was kind of hoping to find them in bad shape and very dirty with debris swishing around in the bottom of the chamber pots, if there was particles in there, there isn't now.

my friend asked how the fuel pump is powered, i said must be from vacuum or air when engine is running, he asked could there be a issues with this not working the fuel pump correctly " truth is i don't know"

also asked if the outboard has a limp home mode ?

i will get the new fuel pump bits and stick it back together and take it out for another run asap

[Lee1]

You could buy the ultrasonic bath if you plan on further carb ultrasonic cleaning, I don't know how much one is? If it's worth it get one, ultrasonic will only clean metal parts, so you will still need carb gaskets, float needle as it most likely rubber tipped, and float, most importantly it important to realise that brass jets that have become blocked over decades of poor care and maintenance start to crumble on the jet hole walls, hard to explain in text, the jet hole walls become soft from the attached gunk that's become embedded in to the brass kinda like how plack sticks to a tooth, if plack is left on a tooth for a long while once it's chipped off it takes the tooth enamel with it do you get me, well that's what happens if you run wire through and old corroded yet, it makes the hole bigger! It took me years to realise this was happening, and the brass jets from the last decade seem to corrode much faster! Non brass jets do not have this issue, after cleaning a jet with wire more often the engine is now running to rich! So my advise, send the carbs off for ultrasonic if you see the internal channels are furred up, get brand new jets, floats, needles and gaskets, new pump kit or new pump and then see how it is also make sure you get the right jets for your country, some engines were jetted for different climates and altitudes!
Also make sure your pump or pump kit is correct regarding ethanol or non ethanol in the fuel you use in your part if the world. Some old pumps fail due to ethanol now in the fuel or the other way round I can't remember lol we don't have the issue in the uk as far as I can remember!

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by arkamelis

ok so today i have stripped down the carbs and got to be honest, there was no debris,slim, or build up inside them, they looked very clear, so anyway stripped them down and cleaned with alcohol and blowed with airline, also took out the bolt in the bottom of the pots and again pretty clean and o ring were fine, tested the floats and shut off valve and working fine. so all cleaned and put back together.
im not sure if this may of fixed the problem, i was kind of hoping to find them in bad shape and very dirty with debris swishing around in the bottom of the chamber pots, if there was particles in there, there isn't now.

my friend asked how the fuel pump is powered, i said must be from vacuum or air when engine is running, he asked could there be a issues with this not working the fuel pump correctly " truth is i don't know"

also asked if the outboard has a limp home mode ?

i will get the new fuel pump bits and stick it back together and take it out for another run asap

Id have hoped to find lots of debris in the carbs too so maybe not the fault your looking for
I wouldnt waste money on new jets floats etc if the jets are clear then they should be fine
NEVER EVER USE WIRE TO CLEAN JETS that will ruin them!
Those engines flow so much fuel the jets are huge so quite easy to spot a blockage
I guess the next step would be reassemble and try again
Did you identify the red item Davie mentioned? That may have been the choke mechanism he was refering to
The fuel pump works off the crankcase pulses as the pressure goes from positive to negative the pressure operates the diaphragm
The diaphragm can get punctured which allows raw fuel into the crank case other than that its a prety reliable item

[Lee1]

If the jets look ok then don't bother with new ones, how are the float needles? My money is on the pump being the issue, then after that it's electrical I guess, does that engine have reed valves? Could also be crank seals, maybe the pump is not getting enough suction from the crankcase like said above. . . I don't know that engine so just giving possibilities!

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by Lee1

does that engine have reed valves?

How the f¥€£ would it run without reeds? like 99% of outboards it crossfeeds the crankcase,
without reeds it wouldnt run!

A marine engineer who needs to ask if a 2 stroke outboard has reeds seriously needs to go back to engine school . unless you concentrate on old seagulls?

[Last Tango]

To go back to the beginning....

Does the engine run perfectly for ten minutes every time it's cold started?
Ten minutes at full throttle is going to see off somewhere between 3 and 5ltrs of fuel so the pump must be working.
What does the exhaust look like?
Does it suddenly start smoking like hell and smelling of two stroke when it starts playing up or does the exhaust still look much the same?
Is there a lot of vibration from it when it's playing up?
After it's been running for a while and you're having the issue, remove the four plugs and look to see if one of them looks much wetter than the others. (or feels colder)

[arkamelis]

Originally Posted by beamishken

Id have hoped to find lots of debris in the carbs too so maybe not the fault your looking for
I wouldnt waste money on new jets floats etc if the jets are clear then they should be fine
NEVER EVER USE WIRE TO CLEAN JETS that will ruin them!
Those engines flow so much fuel the jets are huge so quite easy to spot a blockage
I guess the next step would be reassemble and try again
Did you identify the red item Davie mentioned? That may have been the choke mechanism he was refering to
The fuel pump works off the crankcase pulses as the pressure goes from positive to negative the pressure operates the diaphragm
The diaphragm can get punctured which allows raw fuel into the crank case other than that its a prety reliable item

Hi beamishkin
you are right, the jets are very big, and it would take something like a small pebble to block one, you can literally shine i touch through them and see light, lighting up the inside of the carb, the jet or should a say tube is big and i run a cotton bud through it, if there was any build up of debris, slime or particles non showed up on the cotton bud.
i took one of the so called jets off, had to use a large flat screw driver, again inspected it and it was just a tube with some hole running down the tube, to be honest i didn't need to take the others off, like you said it would be obvious .

the only red item i came across were two o rings at the end of a bolt ( x 2 ) they went through the bottom of the fuel pots ( the section you first unscrew off ) , i think this is where the fuel runs through and makes it way up to the jet, again i took these out and they were in ok condition, no debris , slime or build up, i cleaned them down, and lightly lubed the o rings and re fitted them, i have also inspected the floats ( no issues ) inspected the needles ( no issues there, also tested to see if they shut the fuel off when the pots are full ) and working fine.
i carnt really see anything obvious ive missed, im hoping that what i have done is what Davie wanted me to look into.

[beamishken]

Did you check the inlet before the float valve where Davie mentioned debris buildup can occur?
It does seem like its running on the fuel in the carbs untill they empty from not being delivered enough fuel
Are you sure the fuel hose and connections can deliver enough fuel?
Have you tried a diferent fuel hose and connectors I've known a connector restrict fuel in the past

[arkamelis]

Originally Posted by Last Tango

To go back to the beginning....

Does the engine run perfectly for ten minutes every time it's cold started?
Ten minutes at full throttle is going to see off somewhere between 3 and 5ltrs of fuel so the pump must be working.
What does the exhaust look like?
Does it suddenly start smoking like hell and smelling of two stroke when it starts playing up or does the exhaust still look much the same?
Is there a lot of vibration from it when it's playing up?
After it's been running for a while and you're having the issue, remove the four plugs and look to see if one of them looks much wetter than the others. (or feels colder)

Hi last Tango
yes seems to run ok when i first take it out after being sat for weeks, wouldn't say it actually runs for ten mins, more like about five, but does go like a bat out of hell, once a start to slow down i think i start to get the problems then and when i start to speed up again, when it hit about 1800 revs anything past that it just judders and starts to cut out, if i come off the throttle and can some times keep it running, but again speed up and it goes again.

on one occasion when i tried a portable tank ( which i filled with the expensive fuel high octane ) it was only sat for about half a hour to 45mins, when i connected the portable and set off it was running really well, it actually sounded better and went really fast, i thought i hit the jack pot, but soon after it started to cut out again. and thats where im at now, well i have stripped the carbs down now and awaiting for new fuel pump bits from Davie.

in regards to your questions about the exhaust and smoke, i havnt really been looking for that, it does smoke i little when i first start its, but i don't think anything really bad, just what to expect from a 2 stroker. i will look more into that when i get the carbs and pump back on and take it out next

[arkamelis]

the two bolts run through the bottom and when you take them out using a spanner, as you pull them out theres a o ring on the end of the bolt
sorry in the pic of the bolt (left ) the o rings are black, but on the other set of carbs they were red

[arkamelis]

i couldn't find anything on this section that had o rings

[arkamelis]

i think what you were saying about it seems to run when the pots are full could be the case, and for whatever reason there not re-filling, but it does run slowly when i get the cutting out problem

[A1an]

Originally Posted by Lee1

From all you've done I would say it's an electrical problem, Coil pack or cdi cutting out after its getting warm.

Originally Posted by Lee1

Yes does sound like electrical

Originally Posted by Lee1

It could be blocked carb jets, no fuel added carb cleaner really works as often the deposit has crystallised in the walls of the jet hole.

Originally Posted by Lee1

My money is on the pump being the issue, then after that it's electrical I guess, does that engine have reed valves? Could also be crank seals, maybe the pump is not getting enough suction from the crankcase like said above. . . I don't know that engine so just giving possibilities!

Any other guesses?

[Xk59D]

Originally Posted by A1an

Any other guesses?

My money is on the thingmy Bob or the doofer. Either plenty of duct tape or wd40 will fix it, I'd throw both at it to be sure.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Xk59D

My money is on the thingmy Bob or the doofer. Either plenty of duct tape or wd40 will fix it, I'd throw both at it to be sure.

You obviously haven't a clue, I'd leave it to the "professional" if I were you...........oh hang on neither has he, as you were[emoji6]

[arkamelis]

must replace thingy bob and doofer, knew there was something i was missing, maybe i should go full whack and replace the flux capacitor to