please help needed outboard again

arkamelis · 23 June 2018, 22:07

Hi guys
So i have finally got to taking the boat out today after the issues i was having with the outboard i recently brought and fitted, some of yous have helped with it.
outboard was cutting out but would start again but could only run at low rev, it was looking tho it was down to fuel starvation or vacuum issue.
i have completely stripped down the fuel system,cleaned tank, new hoses, checked vent, new filter/water separator, new primer bulb.
so took boat out and it ran lovely for about ten mins, was very fast. but started to cut out again, so went back a grabbed a portable tank with fresh fuel and has a vent, again it run lovely for about ten mins, but then started to cut out again.
this has got me thinking fuel pump ?

wanted to also ask, is there anyway the issue could be from the controller ? when i lift the safety lock off and move into forwards once in gear just a slight moment forwards and it accelerates, but did notice today that once past the first bit of acceleration it feels like its the going onto what feels like its the travel for acceleration . sorry what im trying to say is theres a bit of acceleration before it feels like its actually going onto the pulley for accelerator . could just be me

Lee1 · 23 June 2018, 23:45

What engine make and model? From all you've done I would say it's an electrical problem, Coil pack or cdi cutting out after its getting warm.

arkamelis · 23 June 2018, 23:57

Hi there
its a 1995 yamaha v4 130hp 2stroke

Lee1 · 24 June 2018, 03:21

Put a multi meter across your coils and check primary and secondary ohms, try to find what the actual ohms your coils should be, if you can't get the actual ohms figure from the internet see if they are all the same, also check the ohms resistance of all the ht leads, inspect and ohms test all spark plugs, make sure all wiring and electronics are grease free and you have no split or worn wires, it sounds like electrical, after the above checks pull the coil packs de-grease and check for cracks and lose connections on the coils and all other electronic components and wires, after all those checks I would check the pre coils and wiring from them, also flywheel sensor this means pulling the flywheel off to do a full inspection, if you can't pull the flywheel spray up there with quick dry non solvent cleaner and leave a few before restarting.

arkamelis · 24 June 2018, 21:44

Hi lee1
been back to move boat today, and switched back to main fuel tank as there wasn't much left in the portable tank, outboard was starting but for whatever reason it was starting to cut out sooner than what it has been, so im thinking could it be to do with heating up ? as it wasn't running long enough to reach a high temp.
i will look into checking to above with a multi meter, but thinking best probably get a engineer to do those checks, funny thing is i have a multi meter but don't know how to check.
I was going to buy i new fuel pump, just so i can rule it out, the guy i brought it from did recommend changing the thing on the inside regally as well has new plugs to keep it on good form.
i did speak to a outboard engineer today, who said it could be heat sensor or cdi unit, whats your thought ?

Lee1 · 24 June 2018, 22:05

Yes does sound like electrical, not many CDI units can be tested easily, but it can be done with a high voltage tester the same way pre coils are tested, checking Coil primary and secondary ohms with a multimeter is very easy, have a YouTube search

beamishken · 24 June 2018, 22:35

An engine that's been sat around for a while is a prime candidate for fuel problems due to stale fuel lying in the carb bowls id start with a thorough strip and clean of the carbs & fuel filter before diving into any expensive electrical components
a new set of plugs is also a favourite

arkamelis · 25 June 2018, 00:32

Hi beamishken
i have installed a new fuel/water separator filter when i cleaned out the main fuel tank, there is however one filter i havnt changed which is in the outboard ( small transparent one ). i will get a new one ordered ( is it essential to have this small one ) ?

for piece of mind im going to get a new fuel pump from BHG.
is there a carb cleaning solution, what about redX in with the fuel ? or do they need to come off

Lee1 · 25 June 2018, 00:47

Can you not rule out fuel pump my manually ensuring fuel is up there my continuously pumping an in line primer? Even if you have to bypass the fuel pump? Will save a lot of time if you can rule out fuel

It could be blocked carb jets, no fuel added carb cleaner really works as often the deposit has crystallised in the walls of the jet hole. Like our arteries get furred up over time, very rarely is a jet blocked with an actual single particle, but when this does happen it's often because the jet hole is already furred up and no longer smooth. You could try injecting neat redex or other cleaner (directly into the carb fuel in) into the carb until it's full (use a syringe) and leave it for 2-3 days. But trying to clear furred up jets with added fuel additive in your fuel is unlikely to work, however if you could run the fuel with the additive at full power for many hours you might get lucky and clear them out a bit, cleaning additives are more preventative than cure for jets and injectors,

beamishken · 25 June 2018, 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkamelis

Hi beamishken
i have installed a new fuel/water separator filter when i cleaned out the main fuel tank, there is however one filter i havnt changed which is in the outboard ( small transparent one ). i will get a new one ordered ( is it essential to have this small one ) ?

for piece of mind im going to get a new fuel pump from BHG.
is there a carb cleaning solution, what about redX in with the fuel ? or do they need to come off

I wouldnt bother with a new fuel pump at this stage squeezing the primer bulb should eliminate an underdelivering pump or you could bypass the pump and have a crewmember constantly priming to eliminate it for a quick test.
The filter on the engine is servicable you screw the lower part off and wash the mesh with petrol and refit.
To clean the carbs they need stripped and jets removed and blown through with compressed air &or carb cleaner or the whole lot put in a ultrasonic bath while stripped
After a long layup you usually find what looks like large grains of sand in the bottom of the float chamber just ready to get sucked up into a jet
Its dried up fuel residue left after the fuel evaporates.
You may have some sucess by removing the drain plug from the float chambers and squeezing the primer to flush clean fuel through and flush out the debris if your not confident to strip and clean the carbs

arkamelis · 25 June 2018, 22:42

hi guys, only just read your messages, already been to boat today and taken a little look under the hood, i took the fuel pump off and opened it up to have a look at the internal parts, please see pics

arkamelis · 25 June 2018, 22:45

the first pic looks quite bad, but wasn't that bad coming out, i think with air getting to it, it curled up a bit, there didn't appear to be any splits in the rubber

arkamelis · 25 June 2018, 22:55

i have only just read your messages, so bit late now, think i may have to get a new pump or look at getting a fuel pump kit and re-fitting it.
if i remember rightly, i think i did check the primer bulb and im pretty sure it was firm ( maintaining pressure ) this time.

arkamelis · 25 June 2018, 23:00

i have spoken to Davie today and he mentioned something about a fuel bar and the bottom of the carbs and that stripping it down and cleaning it out, as it get blocked up, also said to check little red o ring, i need to speak to him again think he was driving at the time

arkamelis · 25 June 2018, 23:12

which bit ?

beamishken · 26 June 2018, 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkamelis

i have spoken to Davie today and he mentioned something about a fuel bar and the bottom of the carbs and that stripping it down and cleaning it out, as it get blocked up, also said to check little red o ring, i need to speak to him again think he was driving at the time

Are you sure he didnt say fuel "bowl"? Thats the fuel reservoir at the bottom of the carb where the remains of the evaporated fuel congeale

Lee1 · 26 June 2018, 03:33

Pump diaphram looks a little stretched, it may of been sucking air in from the sides, on the other side of the middle pump plate (not in your pics) were the screws very tight to remove and kinda made a snap noise when undone? or kinda loose. If lose defiantly refurb the pump with a kit and now your pulled it apart you just as well anyway then it's done anyhow

arkamelis · 26 June 2018, 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by beamishken

Are you sure he didnt say fuel "bowl"? Thats the fuel reservoir at the bottom of the carb where the remains of the evaporated fuel congeale

Hi beamishken
yes more then lightly was this he was trying to explain to me, did say he worked on the same engine as mine few days ago and these were in a very poor state, and would pay to check the condition of mine

Davie · 26 June 2018, 08:02

Take the carbs off. Bits of diaphragm are blocking the fuel supply before it reaches the float needle valves in the horizontal fuel chamber where the rubber fuel hose connects from the fuel pump. There is no filter between fuel pump and carbs. Common problem.

arkamelis · 26 June 2018, 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee1

Pump diaphram looks a little stretched, it may of been sucking air in from the sides, on the other side of the middle pump plate (not in your pics) were the screws very tight to remove and kinda made a snap noise when undone? or kinda loose. If lose defiantly refurb the pump with a kit and now your pulled it apart you just as well anyway then it's done anyhow

yes were tight, but didn't here any noise when opening, i will be ordering a new kit or pump depending on the prices, i think the kit is not much less then the new pump i can get from Davie