Repowering 6.3m rib

Brunedaprune · 07 August 2022, 12:51

Hi there all, first time RIB owner here. We have purchased a 6.3m rib quest with a 150hp Yamaha outboard but have been having a few problems. The engine is very old with 2.8k hours and we have been having quite a few problems with it. We are looking for a boat that can go into the Irish Sea with big 2 meter swells in rough weather. Currently our engine is not giving us the reliability we need. Does anyone have any advice on how to potentially fit a new engine? It is around 15k for a new mariner 150hp outboard. Roughly what would the labour cost and does it have to be a brand new engine for the engineer to fit? as an engine with under a 100 hours is vastly cheaper.

Many thanks,

Bruno

Jon Tallis · 07 August 2022, 15:21

Bruno,
As a guide, I had a second hand E-Tec 150 fitted to my Humber destroyer last winter for £1300+VAT. That included some transom mods but didn't include new control box, cables etc which I supplied myself as I too was re-powering from Yamaha.
Most marine engine technicians will rig a secondhand engine for you - the trick is finding one you trust. The biggest downside with a used motor if course is you're not going to get any sort of meaningful warranty, and finding something reliable. The big advantage of course is cost.
If looking secondhand, try really hard to find something you can sea-trial before it is removed from the boat - not just one seen running on a stand.

Jon Tallis · 07 August 2022, 17:57

At risk of stating the obvious, that didn't include the cost of the engine!

Brunedaprune · 07 August 2022, 19:38

Hi Jon,

Do you remember how much the Evinrude was?

jncunliffe · 07 August 2022, 20:54

I’ve just paid a very similar price to Jon to have a Suzuki DF115 fitted, replacing a DT100.

Excellent job by the Wolf Rock Boat Company. I removed the old engine and steering, they fitted the new inc transom mods/filling, fitted hydraulic steering, throttle remote, four new gauges then an on water test.

Jon C

Jon Tallis · 08 August 2022, 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brunedaprune

Hi Jon,

Do you remember how much the Evinrude was?

Bruno,
Engine was £4500 but having ignored my own advice and bought it fairly blind, I spent an additional ~£1k on 2 new injectors and VST to get it right. Seems to be a goodun now - cross everything! 2011 motor with 300 hours.

Brunedaprune · 08 August 2022, 09:41

What would you recommend the best course of action is. Obviously would not like to spend lots of money on a new engine when a used when is perfectly reliable. Where is a sort of sweet spot for price and hours. Is mariner still considered the most reliable?

69cmw · 08 August 2022, 12:29

Buy from your local dealer with a warranty

Jon Tallis · 08 August 2022, 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brunedaprune

What would you recommend the best course of action is. Obviously would not like to spend lots of money on a new engine when a used when is perfectly reliable. Where is a sort of sweet spot for price and hours. Is mariner still considered the most reliable?

That's a really difficult recommendation to make. A new motor will buy you much more certainty over reliability and of course a manufacturer warranty, but at a significant cost.
Used is much much more of a minefield but obviously significant money to be saved if you find a good engine. Big secondhand outboards are really hard to find, but supply of new might not be much better.
Clearly whatever you spend ought to be reflected in the resale value of your boat, if / when you come to sell it - but of course you have to have the capital available in the first place. A good used engine is maybe better from a resale perspective as it will have already depreciated significantly (a bit like a new Vs used car)
Personally, if I'd had £15k burning a hole in my pocket I probably would still have gone used, albeit maybe something even newer.
If you want 2-stroke (as I did), then of course you are limited to used engines now unless you're a commercial operator.
As for engine manufacturer, there really aren't any "bad" engine makes (IMHO). Theres a lot to be said for choosing a make that has good support from a reliable dealer fairly local to you.

Brunedaprune · 08 August 2022, 14:25

Just got quoted 13.6k for ex demo 150hp mariner with 5 year warranty parts and labour. Only 60 hours as well. Quite tempted but I am hoping to get it done as quick as possible as my local moorings are only used for July and August. Does 13.6k seem steep?

Jon Tallis · 08 August 2022, 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brunedaprune

Just got quoted 13.6k for ex demo 150hp mariner with 5 year warranty parts and labour. Only 60 hours as well. Quite tempted but I am hoping to get it done as quick as possible as my local moorings are only used for July and August. Does 13.6k seem steep?

Vs the £15k you quoted, you're only getting £1400 off the price of a new engine but you are getting a full warranty.
Assuming it's sitting in the dealer ready to fit AND they can fit you in straight away, that might be a price you're prepared to pay to get a reliable engine straight away.
You could try to squeeze them down but it's probably a seller's market.
Worth confirming....
.... Is that plus VAT or including?
....does that price include removing your old engine and rigging the new including all parts to rig the new motor?
.... Are those parts confirmed as available?
....correct shaft length for your transom?
....will they take your old engine in part-ex as a spares engine / breaker? Assuming you don't want to sell it / break it privately.
....is sea-trial included?
.....exchange of propeller if your boat needs something other than what's currently on the engine?
....service and winterise at the end of the season?

If you don't ask........

Brunedaprune · 10 August 2022, 18:26

Thinking of repowering, engine has a cracked header and next slot for repair is in 2-3 weeks. Does anyone have any experience with the reliability of well used outboard engines. 2.8k is obviously a lot of hours but it also has an excellent service record. Replacement engine ncludes tax, correct length. Will ask all the other questions. Got a few cracks on the transom and wanted your guys opinion on it before I ask my mechanic what he thinks of it. Cannot remember if these were here last summer when we bought it. Files attached by Imgur

https://imgur.com/a/50bZkho

Jon Tallis · 10 August 2022, 19:01

Bruno,
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but you have a problem with that transom. Photos can be misleading but I'd recommend getting that looked at by a competent boat-builder ASAP and wouldn't be using the boat until repaired (or at least looked at in detail) Engine will almost certainly have to come off for any transom repair to be done properly.
As for the engine, sometimes a known engine with issues that are fixable is still a good bet but 2800 is a LOT of hours.....you may be throwing good money after bad..
Evinrude recon a typical "leisure" engine does about 100hours a year (hence their 300hours / 3yr service interval). Using that as a guide, your engine has done 28years of service!
Probably not what you wanted to hear......

Brunedaprune · 10 August 2022, 19:18

Thanks Jon, will check that out tomorrow when my mechanic is coming to check engine compression. Engine problems and transom issues makes a difficult decision as she is an awesome boat that I love. 47 knots

How much do you think my hull would be worth with an engine that isn’t really worth much and a little bit knackered trailer. It is a rib quest 5.8 pictures attached. Gel coat is scratched in places but otherwise fine. Sale assumes it has a solid transom.

https://imgur.com/a/a7CiNgP

Jon Tallis · 10 August 2022, 19:37

Bruno,
I was in a very similar position a couple of years back with my Humber. An old, well looked after engine that I knew well but with reliability issues and a transom beginning to crack as the core had gone soft. I had a valuation of "not more than £1.5k" from local yacht broker.
Transom was professionally repaired (and significantly beefed up) for around £1000, re-powering probably cost me £2.5k after I'd sold on the old engine and now the boat is back as awesome as ever.
Never give up - everything is fixable.....

HDAV · 10 August 2022, 22:50

Saw a lot of ribs with Suzuki outboards in Anglesey recently so guess good local support, good reputation and supposed to be good on fuel.

DF140 seemed popular

Brunedaprune · 11 August 2022, 10:23

Never really been a big fan of the 140 Suzuki as I heard that it was the last engine in the 100hp engine block. This lead to issues in torque and wearing down of parts. If that’s not the case I will check it out. Might stay with a 150 though because they are so much fun.

Pikey Dave · 11 August 2022, 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brunedaprune

Never really been a big fan of the 140 Suzuki as I heard that it was the last engine in the 100hp engine block. This lead to issues in torque and wearing down of parts. If that’s not the case I will check it out. Might stay with a 150 though because they are so much fun.

Speaking as the owner of a DF140, I’d go for the 150 Mercury.

Brunedaprune · 11 August 2022, 11:13

Why mercury not over any of the other brands? What are your thoughts on a 140 vs 150?

HDAV · 11 August 2022, 11:33

Possibly they are popular as cheaper than a 150 as they are the last of the smaller block where as merc 150 are the larger block mid range 135-150-175 all basically the same. Also heard the number on the cowling of a merc is rather conservative so much so the power is being questioned in racing circles as an unfair advantage of running mercs in the same class as others