RIB Steering Free Play

Chipmunk · 23 August 2023, 17:36

I have recently installed a new steering cable and helm on my Tornado 5.4m RIB and have a lot of play on the steering. I thought it might be a faulty steering cable but the new cable is exactly the same. Walking around the boat park and checking other RIB steering gear I found that some have play and some don't. The play really affects the steering of my boat when it's on the water so I need to do something about it but am mystified as to what is causing it. I have attached a link to a video I took today to show how much free movement the motor has on either side without moving the steering. Does anyone have any suggestions on what is causing this and how to fix it?

https://youtu.be/f4qW2GANBT4

beamishken · 23 August 2023, 18:00

Looks like the lock nut on the opposite side isnt tightened down onto the shoulder of the outer cable

Chipmunk · 23 August 2023, 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by beamishken

Looks like the lock nut on the opposite side isnt tightened down onto the shoulder of the outer cable

I can confirm the lock nut is fully tightened.

Chipmunk · 23 August 2023, 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chipmunk

I can confirm the lock nut is fully tightened.

I did wonder whether it’s the inner cable moving from side to side in the outer sheath? It’s a long steering cable (14 foot) and there are 4 turns between the engine and the helm)

beamishken · 23 August 2023, 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chipmunk

I can confirm the lock nut is fully tightened.

Are you sure its nipping the cable collar though? sometimes the nut bottoms out before it nips the cable? Does the ferrule move on the opposite side? Alternatively to that its possible the helm has an issue or isnt compatible with the cable. I very much doubt that much play is just free play in the cable

Chipmunk · 23 August 2023, 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by beamishken

Are you sure its nipping the cable collar though? sometimes the nut bottoms out before it nips the cable? Does the ferrule move on the opposite side? Alternatively to that its possible the helm has an issue or isnt compatible with the cable. I very much doubt that much play is just free play in the cable

The nut is really tight and the outer casing is tight against the steering flange. If I pull the outer casing it doesn't budge

This is the amount of play in a new cable I bought

https://youtube.com/shorts/MFCJz938qnQ

It seems to be consistent with the currently installed cable hence my thought that it's the inner moving inside the outer

Peter_C · 24 August 2023, 04:38

I'd call that the normal amount of play for a steering cable. Want less play, switch to hydraulic steering.

Chipmunk · 24 August 2023, 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_C

I'd call that the normal amount of play for a steering cable. Want less play, switch to hydraulic steering.

Thanks. I think that might be my only option. What make /type hydraulic steering systems would you recommend? Are there any I should avoid or things I should watch out for?

Matt · 24 August 2023, 09:01

Agree with Peter. You can see the cable moving near the console as you move the motor.

It is a big deal in use? Once the motor is in gear and under power, you get a bit of torque off the motor that preloads it all and takes up the slack anyway. Unless you're trying to go max effort, ride it on the pad, surface piercing with the prop. Horses for courses. The water is all squishy and wobbly anyway, so it's not like a car where a loose steering rack would make the handling wacky - boats steer like that anyway - sort of like old landrovers.

Nevertheless hydraulic is nice - seastar is the "go to" thing generally. It's decent enough, although for high performance things there are options to go with wingplates & external rams. Almost certainly overkill for you, but they are nice.

paddlers · 24 August 2023, 09:04

I have a very similar amount of play in my Teleflex NFB helm and cable . There's no adjustment so it would appear to be normal.

Matt · 24 August 2023, 09:17

Yeah. It absolutely is. Although the benefit of the NFB helms is you're not having to hold the helm against the torque off the motor all the time. There was a time when dual cable NFB helms were all the rage - dual cable to dial the slack out. These days you'd just upgrade to seastar, IMVHO.

For perspective, my old 29' Formula 292 SR1 had a bog standard teleflex cable steering setup. I did eventually upgrade it to be external hydraulic assist, but it still had the teleflex steering cable running from the helm to the drives. It had twin 7.4 litre V8's on bravo drives and weighed about 3.5 tonnes and did 62mph - and was just fine on cable steering.

My point being, don't overthink it.

beamishken · 24 August 2023, 09:53

I just checked 2 boats & a loose cable 1 boat which has 13 year old cable steering has a little play similar to your video another bigger boat has virtually none & a loose cable has almost none & from other peoples observations it seems the amount of play varies. The 5.4m boat I found the most play on is the boat we use the most & shows no symptoms of poor steering, it all works fine. Even hydraulic will have some free play, especially lower hp versions as the mounting rods flex a fair bit where they enter the tilt tube so may not solve your issue. If your steering is particularly bad It maybe you have other issues at play. What problems is the steering causing you?

Chipmunk · 24 August 2023, 10:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by beamishken

I just checked 2 boats & a loose cable 1 boat which has 13 year old cable steering has a little play similar to your video another bigger boat has virtually none & a loose cable has almost none & from other peoples observations it seems the amount of play varies. The 5.4m boat I found the most play on is the boat we use the most & shows no symptoms of poor steering, it all works fine. Even hydraulic will have some free play, especially lower hp versions as the mounting rods flex a fair bit where they enter the tilt tube so may not solve your issue. If your steering is particularly bad It maybe you have other issues at play. What problems is the steering causing you?

Thanks all. This is very useful info. I hadn't used the boat much before the previous cable snapped and I installed the current Seastar helm and cable. When I took the boat out next I noticed the steering had a lag in it when turning from side to side. This wasn't something I had noticed previously however I hadn't used the boat much before so could be mistaken. I then started to look further and found this free play which doesn't seem to appear on all RIBs, which I found puzzling. Why would there be play on some and not on others? I'll use the RIB a bit more like this and then if I'm still not happy I'll look at replacing it with hydraulic. My steering cable is quite long (14ft) and it needs to wind around the centre mounted fuel tank which may be causing some of the issues. If the number of turns is a contributing factor then hydraulic should sort the problem and possibly provide lighter steering in the process. Thanks once again for all your responses.

beamishken · 24 August 2023, 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chipmunk

Thanks all. This is very useful info. I hadn't used the boat much before the previous cable snapped and I installed the current Seastar helm and cable. When I took the boat out next I noticed the steering had a lag in it when turning from side to side. This wasn't something I had noticed previously however I hadn't used the boat much before so could be mistaken. I then started to look further and found this free play which doesn't seem to appear on all RIBs, which I found puzzling. Why would there be play on some and not on others? I'll use the RIB a bit more like this and then if I'm still not happy I'll look at replacing it with hydraulic. My steering cable is quite long (14ft) and it needs to wind around the centre mounted fuel tank which may be causing some of the issues. If the number of turns is a contributing factor then hydraulic should sort the problem and possibly provide lighter steering in the process. Thanks once again for all your responses.

I guess if the inner cable is loose in the outer combined with a few turns the sideways movement might equate to the play your experiencing. We also have a hard boat which runs a cable to the power assisted steering that cable is 22ft long & I've not noticed any significant slop in the steering of that boat. I think a few more runs in the boat & you'll probably not notice it.
Incidentally I'm planning a run over from drummore to peel this weekend, staying on my pals sailing boat to watch some of the racing

Chipmunk · 24 August 2023, 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by beamishken

I guess if the inner cable is loose in the outer combined with a few turns the sideways movement might equate to the play your experiencing. We also have a hard boat which runs a cable to the power assisted steering that cable is 22ft long & I've not noticed any significant slop in the steering of that boat. I think a few more runs in the boat & you'll probably not notice it.
Incidentally I'm planning a run over from drummore to peel this weekend, staying on my pals sailing boat to watch some of the racing

Excellent

Have a good trip over and enjoy the Manx Grand Prix!

mr4bx · 05 September 2023, 16:05

I had a lot of play in my cable steering setup, which I also assumed to be cable wear. I was already to comitted to a hydraulic setup and when dissasembling the cable system, found there was no wear in the cable, planetary gear set or main gear which drives the inner cable. The play was actually coming from flat spots on the steering wheel shaft that transmit rotational force from the steering wheel/shaft, to the main gear that drives the cable (if that makes sense). I wish I had taken photos now. In any event, this type of wear was not servicable and would have required a new helm.

BUT, I was switching to hydraulic simply because I wanted that characteristic light, smooth, no effort feeling at slow speeds. I installed the Hydrodrive mf75w system, which from what I could gather is one of the cheapest available. It is extremely well made, has very smooth operation and was very simple to install. Bleeding took a little time and I'm not sure the instructions are particularly well laid out in that respect. Order it directly from SSI Marine and you'll save a fair bit of money compared to their eBay store. All in, I think I paid £550 for the full kit including the wheel, which is purchased seperately. It's probably excessive on an SR4...

Chipmunk · 05 September 2023, 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr4bx

….. BUT, I was switching to hydraulic simply because I wanted that characteristic light, smooth, no effort feeling at slow speeds. I installed the Hydrodrive mf75w system, which from what I could gather is one of the cheapest available. It is extremely well made, has very smooth operation and was very simple to install. Bleeding took a little time and I'm not sure the instructions are particularly well laid out in that respect. Order it directly from SSI Marine and you'll save a fair bit of money compared to their eBay store. All in, I think I paid £550 for the full kit including the wheel, which is purchased seperately. It's probably excessive on an SR4...

Thanks for the update. In my case the helm and steering cable are both new so that shouldn’t be the issue for me. I have however decided that hydraulic is the way to go. Apart from the slop, the steering gets pretty heavy when travelling at speed which I’m hoping the hydraulic system will also fix.

A bigger issue for me at the moment is my very stiff throttle control. I’ve replaced the remote control unit and the cables, and I’ve run the cables down the side of the boat to remove any bend. I’ve also checked the engine throttle movement - which is quite springy but smooth. I’m now at a complete loss as to why my throttle is still so stiff - especially when the engine is running. All parts seem to work fine individually but not when put together. I’m sure there’s a simple answer to this - I just need to find it!!

mr4bx · 05 September 2023, 20:33

Sounds like you've set your sights on a hydraulic setup

I'm not sure if this is the case with all throttle quadrant, but my OMC (which is a little old) has a knob beneath the starter that I can dial clockwise or anticlockwise to adjust tension on the barrel the throttle lever actuates to move the cables. The knob just adjusts spring tension which pushes against a shoe that pushes agains the barrel. Might be worth checking yours isn't putting excessive pressure on the throttle barrel?

Chipmunk · 05 September 2023, 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr4bx

Sounds like you've set your sights on a hydraulic setup

I'm not sure if this is the case with all throttle quadrant, but my OMC (which is a little old) has a knob beneath the starter that I can dial clockwise or anticlockwise to adjust tension on the barrel the throttle lever actuates to move the cables. The knob just adjusts spring tension which pushes against a shoe that pushes agains the barrel. Might be worth checking yours isn't putting excessive pressure on the throttle barrel?

Thanks - good suggestion but I’ve already tried that - it all the way out so as loose as I can make it 🙂

beamishken · 06 September 2023, 17:37

the steering gets pretty heavy when travelling at speed which I’m hoping the hydraulic system will also fix. [/QUOTE]

If the steering is heavy then I'd say you have another problem somewhere, possibly the steering pivot bearings starting to sieze. The hydraulic wont fix it but it will cover it up due to the lower ratio, more turns lock to lock