Sale of Goods Act

[brucehawsker]

If the goods are not up to the promised job (fit for purpose), for up to six years after purchase, purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).

If repair and replacement are not possible or too costly, then the consumer can seek a partial refund, if they have had some benefit from the good, or a full refund if the fault/s have meant they have enjoyed no benefit

My outboard has been attached to my Rib, serviced according to manufacturers schedule by authorised dealers. Its lid is never lifted off by me - it is a 2 stroke hence 'no user maintainable parts inside'.

It was serviced in Mar 07.

Now, when its lid is taken off for its 08 service, after 280 hours and 3 years five months use, the service engineer finds the compressor has broken away and has caused £3,800 of damage rendering the engine only useful for parts.

Barrus have offered, subject to photographic evidence, possibly but not promised free or possibly but not promised reduced price parts, but there is still a load of labour involved here. The engine is 5 months out of warranty.

I haven't done anything crazy with the boat, and certainly not abused (have never touched) the engine.

Should I not have better support from Barrus in this matter?

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by brucehawsker

Should I not have better support from Barrus in this matter?

No.

They didn't sell you the motor (which was part of a package?) The retailer has the contract of sale with you and is responsible for the supply of goods to you. You should take up the matter with the retailer. The retailer may wish to ask for support from the distributor.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by brucehawsker

If the goods are not up to the promised job (fit for purpose), for up to six years after purchase, purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).

If repair and replacement are not possible or too costly, then the consumer can seek a partial refund, if they have had some benefit from the good, or a full refund if the fault/s have meant they have enjoyed no benefit

My outboard has been attached to my Rib, serviced according to manufacturers schedule by authorised dealers. Its lid is never lifted off by me - it is a 2 stroke hence 'no user maintainable parts inside'.

It was serviced in Mar 07.

Now, when its lid is taken off for its 08 service, after 280 hours and 3 years five months use, the service engineer finds the compressor has broken away and has caused £3,800 of damage rendering the engine only useful for parts.

Barrus have offered, subject to photographic evidence, possibly but not promised free or possibly but not promised reduced price parts, but there is still a load of labour involved here. The engine is 5 months out of warranty.

I haven't done anything crazy with the boat, and certainly not abused (have never touched) the engine.

Should I not have better support from Barrus in this matter?

Bruce - some points for you to ponder:

• if you purchased from a dealer not direct from manufacturer then Barus probably has no responsibilty to you under the SoG Act. However the dealer does. [Edit: Richard B types faster than me]
• if you paid on a credit card the card company also share that responsibility.
• was the engine properly winterised/stored (your message above implies not)
• why did the part fail? e.g. faulty part/corrosion/maintainence. (could there be a mechanic who "overlooked" a loose bolt he should have checked)
• are there any rotine inspections/checks required in the owners manual (i know someone who had car warranty claims rejected as she admitted to never having checked the oil level between annual services) [Edit: even if no checks are required I think it is prudent seamanship to check that the the engine looks ok periodically - e.g. the effects of an oil/fule leak are a lot more dramatic 10 miles off shore than when discovered in the marina]
• Barus (or the dealer's) initial position is likely to be that they clearly market the product with a 3 year warranty - and this is, implicitly, saying that the product will be fit for purpose for 3 years. (The Act allows for products to have a realistic shelf life (I can't recall the exact words) - now whether that is realistic would be for the courts to decide)
• if this were a car "out of warranty" would you really expect the manufacturer to fix it/compensate you?
• £3800 sounds like a lot of damage, presumably that wasn't instantaneous. The dealer may quite reasonably (IMHO) question if you hadn't heard/noticed a problem.

not saying you are right/wrong just may need to step back for realistic reflection.

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by Polwart

• if this were a car "out of warranty" would you really expect the manufacturer to fix it/compensate you?

Motor vehicles are, if I remember correctly, specifically exempted from the Sale of Goods Act.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Richard B

Motor vehicles are, if I remember correctly, specifically exempted from the Sale of Goods Act.

Richard - I could be wrong - but I don't think you are right.

[brucehawsker]

it seems wrong to blame the boatbuilder! loads of people put optis on ribs - why shouldn't he??

Peugeot have just replaced a seat cushion for me which crumbled after 60,000 miles out of 3 yr warranty....

Engine was being used over winter so no winterisation.

No, we heard nothing - nor did others with more expereince than me when in the rib. The part clearly broke some time last season, with the compressor being held on by its belt only.....

I did not look under the hood - I never do - and the manual does not suggest you do. Joy of a 2-stroke.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by brucehawsker

it seems wrong to blame the boatbuilder!

Because he is legally responsible. His purchase of the engine (for resale) from Barrus is covered by the SoG Act too but is between him and them. He can pursue Barrus (and probably has more clout than you) if he is suffering a "loss".

Peugeot have just replaced a seat cushion for me which crumbled after 60,000 miles out of 3 yr warranty....

Peugot or the dealer? And a seat cussion is a few pounds not thousands of pounds and that gesture may just keep you as a customer.

Engine was being used over winter so no winterisation.

fair enough - assuming of course it was stored correctly

No, we heard nothing - nor did others with more expereince than me when in the rib. The part clearly broke some time last season, with the compressor being held on by its belt only.....

fair enough

I did not look under the hood - I never do - and the manual does not suggest you do. Joy of a 2-stroke.

I also have a 2 str. But need to open the hood to put the oil in (small engine). I always have a look around for any obvious issues. I wouldn't feel comfortable taking a boat to sea without first having checked under the hood for loose cables or leaks.

So what failed? broken part (corrosion?) loose bolt? bolt sheared?

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by Polwart

I don't think you are right.

It wouldn't be the first time and it certainly won't be that last!

Originally Posted by brucehawsker

it seems wrong to blame the boatbuilder!

But he supplied it to you, in fact he even demonstrated it and recommended it to you! He had the contract with you at point of sale, he is responsible. He may be a nice guy, but he's the one you have a contract with.

[PeterR]

Hi ,I would absolutely hate to be in your position and would find it so frustrating to have found this problem after the warenty had expired but i think your only option now is to except any good will offered.Manufactures do often do repaired when just out of warenty.These engines do i think have a memery in the computer on its fault codes if any have come up and are dated maybe you could have some recall on this if they fall within the end of warenty

[Hightower]

I don't see that the dealer would be responsible unless it was a bodged service that was to blame. I would have thought that a dealer would only offer a 1 year garantee on top of the warantee from the manufacturers. If Barrus is representing the manufacturer (Mercury), then I guess the only course or action would be to persue action with Barrus possibly though your dealer if they are a main agent.

If what I expect has happened and either the mounting points have broken away from the compressor or bolts either have fallen out or not been secured correctly then I can't see how you are to blame for not looking under the hood. However it is good practice to have a look under the cowling and have a push and pull on various bit and pieces during the season just for this reson. It might help familiarise you with different areas on the engine that might need attention during a breakdown situation at sea.


Find out exactly what has gone wrong and start looking on iboat forums to see if it's a common problem.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Hightower

I don't see that the dealer would be responsible unless it was a bodged service that was to blame. I would have thought that a dealer would only offer a 1 year garantee on top of the warantee from the manufacturers. If Barrus is representing the manufacturer (Mercury), then I guess the only course or action would be to persue action with Barrus possibly though your dealer if they are a main agent.

Andy, the law is absolutely clear that the vendor/retailer is responsible for ensuring that the goods are fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality. The contract of sale is between the buyer (bruce) and the retailer (dealer) not between bruce and Barrus. How could barrus be held to a contract (whether explicit or implied) which they did not enter into.

The one possible exception is if the dealer is actually an agent for the manufacturer, (and so never owns the stock and all contracts / reciepts are clearly issued in Barrus' name, rather than the dealers)

What bruce is doing is highlighting that the SoG Act applies even after any manufacturers / dealers warranties (for 6 years in England). The question then becomes what is a realistic life of an engine (clearly the SoG Act accounts for the fact that some items are perishable). The next question is what is a reasonable remedy, given that the engine is 3.5 years old, and done 280 hours. Most people (I suspect including Bruce) would not expect a brand new engine or complete refund.

If what I expect has happened and either the mounting points have broken away from the compressor or bolts either have fallen out or not been secured correctly then I can't see how you are to blame for not looking under the hood. However it is good practice to have a look under the cowling and have a push and pull on various bit and pieces during the season just for this reson. It might help familiarise you with different areas on the engine that might need attention during a breakdown situation at sea.

Actually if the bolts worked loose the next question is - are they included for checking on the service schedule. If so it questions the quality of the servicing. If they sheared/failed then perhaps it was a faulty component (or design) and I think there is a good argument that the product was not of satisfactory quality. If it corroded then that might be argued to be fair wear and tear, that the user/mechanic might have spotted through routine inspection.

However Bruce has to take this up with the company that sold him the engine (or if he believes it was bad servicing with the servicing company). If he does this properly and gets inadequate remedy then he might consider a small claims case against the dealer, as its failry simple and cheap in England at this value level. If he tries that against Barrus - then Barrus' lawyers would get it chucked out as they are not liable in law.

[paul holder]

i have had a protracted action against my local nissan dealer for a heated rear window so i am up to speed sales of goods act

your regress is to the dealer in side the guarantee time its up to him to get his money back from the manufacturer he wont wont to you may have to go to court there for tell him formley & register the letter then contact your local traiding standard man .do not say you have not taken the lid off .

[Hightower]

Originally Posted by paul holder

i have had a protracted action against my local nissan dealer for a heated rear window so i am up to speed sales of goods act

your regress is to the dealer in side the guarantee time its up to him to get his money back from the manufacturer he wont wont to you may have to go to court there for tell him formley & register the letter then contact your local traiding standard man .do not say you have not taken the lid off .

But it's outside the Warantee period, that's why the dealer won't be interested unless it's caused by service neglect. I think that Bruce will have to proove liability that the dealer is at fault or deal direct with the manufacturer though their agents in the UK, ie Barrus.

We are all really in the dark as to what has happened to the outboard other that that it broke.

[tim griffin]

Did the dealer also service the engine Bruce ?

[brucehawsker]

yes,Tim, as per the black book - 12 mths or 100 hours whichever was first

[Chris]

Bruce,

Sorry to hear about you problems however I am interested in how a loose compressor has caused so much damage, what needs replacing? I have read a few posts now that refer to compressor issues with Optis, is this a weak point on the engine?

Chris

[tim griffin]

Originally Posted by brucehawsker

yes,Tim, as per the black book - 12 mths or 100 hours whichever was first

And every service after that.
I had 3 bolts sheer on the alternator mounting bracket

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Chris

Bruce, Sorry to hear about you problems however I am interested in how a loose compressor has caused so much damage, what needs replacing? I have read a few posts now that refer to compressor issues with Optis, is this a weak point on the engine? Chris

Funny old thing thats what I was thinking, just how many parts do you have to replace to get a bill of £3800 FFS . Think a second opinion might be in order Bruce, you have Steves number and he has a new powerhead for about £1000, or take it back to Lee and see what he has to say about repair costs. Think you're being taken for a ride at £3800.

Pete

[jwalker]

Heez a southerner...he'll enjoy giving money away.