steering help

[arkamelis]

Hi
new outboard fitted and set up my steering ( temporary today ) just to work out if i had the right length drag link bar, sadly im missing the correct bolt, so just put a normal bolt in just to test the steering out, thing is i needed arms like popeye to turn the steering wheel just wanted to know if this is normal and i need to man up.
i never owned such a big outboard and this is a yam v4 130hp, its a fair old lump, is there anything you can recommend to try

[Last Tango]

Is the engine trimmed down to a "normal running" angle?
If you're trying it with the engine trimmed up it will be very heavy because it's only balanced right at the centre of it's movement.
Presumably the steering is up to the job and was feather light before you connected it to the engine?
The pivot tube isn't seized on the engine? Be careful pumping grease into this don't pile excessive pressure on the grease gun. I've cracked a pivot tube casting by doing that.
It shouldn't be heavy. I can spin mine from lock to lock with two fingers on one of the wheel spokes.

[arkamelis]

hi and thanks for replying , yes i believe it was trimmed down, not 100% it was 100% down but outboard looked in normal down position .when i fitted the outboard it was bit firm to turn then, i thought this was normal and once connected to the steering the steering would be right. there isn't anything wrong with the actual steering helm that turns very freely. How would i know if the pivot tube is seized ? the guy i brought it from had hydraulic steering

[arkamelis]

just watched some youtube vids on steering issues, im really hoping theres not an issues with the pivot seized, watched a couple of American guys striping down v4 to get to steering pivot, talk about butchery, power head had to be removed.
im hoping this is not the case and some grease will cure it, was just thinking could i flush the pivot chamber with a strong degreaser leave for a couple of days and redo it again till the system is clear of all grease then fill with new grease

[paintman]

You say the helm turns freely but did you check it by turning when the cables were fitted to been sure the cables also move easily?
Are the cables of right length without too tight bends?
If you disconnect the cable end(s) from the engine but leave them in the tubes does the helm still turn easily?
Corrosion in the cable can make them very stiff.

I found with mine that there was some internal damage in one of the tubes the cable passes through at the engine & that required a bit of careful clearing out with an expanding reamer.
Be careful if you need to apply a lot of force to the helm as excessive force trying to free off something can damage the helm internals.

[Last Tango]

Originally Posted by arkamelis

just watched some youtube vids on steering issues, im really hoping theres not an issues with the pivot seized, watched a couple of American guys striping down v4 to get to steering pivot, talk about butchery, power head had to be removed.
im hoping this is not the case and some grease will cure it, was just thinking could i flush the pivot chamber with a strong degreaser leave for a couple of days and redo it again till the system is clear of all grease then fill with new grease

The engine should more or less "flop" from lock to lock without the steering connected.
The purists won't like it but I've freed one off before by mixing grease and gearbox oil and just kept pumping it through with a grease gun working the engine back and forward as I did it..... Messy but not nearly as much fun as stripping a pivot tube.
Once it had freed off I just pumped some proper grease in there.
Worth a try.

[arkamelis]

Originally Posted by paintman

You say the helm turns freely but did you check it by turning when the cables were fitted to been sure the cables also move easily?
Are the cables of right length without too tight bends?
If you disconnect the cable end(s) from the engine but leave them in the tubes does the helm still turn easily?
Corrosion in the cable can make them very stiff.

I found with mine that there was some internal damage in one of the tubes the cable passes through at the engine & that required a bit of careful clearing out with an expanding reamer.
Be careful if you need to apply a lot of force to the helm as excessive force trying to free off something can damage the helm internals.

hi paintman
the helm is in fantastic condition, and moves very freely, before i fitted the outboard i was turning the steering wheel both ways to work out the middle point of travel on the pin, so again no issue with helm, as for the actual cable its always been on the boat and theres no bends apart from the one leading to the outboard at the stern.

[arkamelis]

Originally Posted by Last Tango

The engine should more or less "flop" from lock to lock without the steering connected.
The purists won't like it but I've freed one off before by mixing grease and gearbox oil and just kept pumping it through with a grease gun working the engine back and forward as I did it..... Messy but not nearly as much fun as stripping a pivot tube.
Once it had freed off I just pumped some proper grease in there.
Worth a try.

hi last tango
no outboard doesn't move "flop" lock to lock, i have to apply some pressure . i have inspected the outer pivot tube and all looks good, theres old grease on the top and bottom of the pivot tube, took a quick look at it today and couldn't find the bleed nipples, i can only think they are accessible when the out board is raised, no battery time of visit. i have spoke to someone today and he also recommended engine oil is good to break down old grease, again just put it in grease gun, once freed then go back to some good grease. i will look at trying it with gearbox oil mixed with grease like you mentioned first, i have nothing to loose and i don't see how these methods could cause any damage. im away for the weekend but will give it a try when i get back and keep you posted. again thank you

[arkamelis]

just a thought could you use Gunk the green version, to basically flush it right out, then use oil, then re-grease a couple of times ?

[Last Tango]

Originally Posted by arkamelis

just a thought could you use Gunk the green version, to basically flush it right out, then use oil, then re-grease a couple of times ?

I think Gunk used to be paraffin based don't know now. My concern would be that a grease gun can produce one hell of a high pressure otherwise I might have suggested using diesel.
Probably be ok but I'd be a bit paranoid.

[arkamelis]

dam what a miserable day, hasn't stopped raining here all day

anyway some good news, managed to get over to the outboard today and raised it and found the grease nipple, so using oil pump i pumped in around 0.20 ltr of engine oil, after a while it came out the bottom of pivot tube, but not the top, so i continued working the outboard lock to lock and it got little better, better then what it was, but still not "flop" lock to lock. im pleased at this point theres been a change. my plan now when weather is better to go back and some how try and seal the bottom of the pivot tube perhaps cleaning it and wrapping some strong pvc tape around the bottom followed by cable tie, the aim is just to reduce the flow and im hoping the oil will then make its way to the top of the pivot tube, if this works i will continue flushing the tube with about a litre of oil to try and clear any built up grease, working the outboard in the process. will leave outboard for a few days to allow oil to drain out then fill pivot tube with some decent quality marine grease, and fingers crossed this will have give it a new burst of life keep you posted

[breezeblock]

Originally Posted by arkamelis

dam what a miserable day, hasn't stopped raining here all day

anyway some good news, managed to get over to the outboard today and raised it and found the grease nipple, so using oil pump i pumped in around 0.20 ltr of engine oil, after a while it came out the bottom of pivot tube, but not the top, so i continued working the outboard lock to lock and it got little better, better then what it was, but still not "flop" lock to lock. im pleased at this point theres been a change. my plan now when weather is better to go back and some how try and seal the bottom of the pivot tube perhaps cleaning it and wrapping some strong pvc tape around the bottom followed by cable tie, the aim is just to reduce the flow and im hoping the oil will then make its way to the top of the pivot tube, if this works i will continue flushing the tube with about a litre of oil to try and clear any built up grease, working the outboard in the process. will leave outboard for a few days to allow oil to drain out then fill pivot tube with some decent quality marine grease, and fingers crossed this will have give it a new burst of life keep you posted

fill a grease gun with valve grinding paste and pump it in that will get it moving in a jiffy and it won't go tight ever again problem solved

[Last Tango]

Originally Posted by breezeblock

fill a grease gun with valve grinding paste and pump it in that will get it moving in a jiffy and it won't go tight ever again problem solved

Can we try this out on your engine first?........you worry me.

[arkamelis]

Originally Posted by Last Tango

Can we try this out on your engine first?........you worry me.

i guess there is one plus to using grinding paste, i will never need to use grease again

has any one actually ever tried this

[arkamelis]

got back to the boat today
i think all the oil has drained out, again i had to use some pressure to get it to move, but once moved it was ok, but still needed assistance. i raised the outboard again and cleaned around the bottom of the pivot tube then wrapped a rubber glove around the bottom of the pivot tube and cable tied in place, then started the oil filling process but agin the oil ended up finding its way out of the bottom of pivot tube, so no joy it coming out the top, i then ran out of oil so used grease gun and just kept pumping that in, again came out the bottom, also notice some grease was coming out right under the pivot tube ( below the clamp ) but anyway still carnt get anything to come out the top of the pivot tube. the only thing i can think of now is to some how get the leg on enough angle to allow some liquid ( oil/degreaser ) to soak in the pivot tube and with it being on such an angle i hope it will eventually work its way out the top, may then try with grease.
i must say its a definite improvement on how much more it moves better, but i don't think its moving as free as it should be, with ease and just flop lock to lock

any thoughts ?

[Xk59D]

https://youtu.be/Ph0QndGBa6E

Maybe worth a shot.

[arkamelis]

hi Xk59D
thank you, i have already seen this vid, i was planning on using Gunk degreaser, but thought i would try with the oil first, the issue im having is what i have been using so far and nothing coming out the top of the pivot tube, i will be looking into getting the outboard up to an angle where any liquids whether oil or degreaser will run down towards the top of the pivot tube and hopefully it will break down any caked in grease/salt and then allow for flushing and filling with new grease, im then hoping it will lock to lock with very easy effort

again thank you

[Fenlander]

Can you reach the grease nipple/s with the OB in the down position? If so just take the weight of the OB on a jack then try greasing and it may well come out the top.

[beamishken]

Try pumping grease in while warming the upper bearing with a heat gun the thicker grease in the lower bearing will give something to react against to build pressure while the heat should allow the warm grease to penetrate the tighter top bearing.The heat will also swell the upper bearing hopefully allowing the grease to penetrate

[arkamelis]

Originally Posted by Fenlander

Can you reach the grease nipple/s with the OB in the down position? If so just take the weight of the OB on a jack then try greasing and it may well come out the top.

sadly no when fully down grease nipple out of sight. good idea tho
could try raising the outboard just enough to pop grease gun on and try jacking up little to take the weight off