Suzuki Df140 Trim and tilt?

ciaranp · 02 March 2008, 21:48

was out today first on new rib with DF140 Suzuki.

New to this game so a question to ask.

On setting off rib is nose high so trimed engine out a bit to level out but on increasing speed and revs engine trims back down itself fully.

Is this normal for the engine to trim in itself on increasing revs?

xtreme · 02 March 2008, 22:04

when you trim your engine up you will bring the nose up more .. so if your nose is high from the start maybe you have to much weight at the stern of the boat .. what boat is it .. can you post a pic ?

how far are you triming the engine because when it goes past a point it starts to tilt not trim and if this happens the engine will tilt back down on its own but only to the top of the trim setting (if that makes sense)

ryan

matt h · 02 March 2008, 22:14

Good to meet you on saturday Mr Extreme,

thats an awsome bit of kit you have!!
sorry to nick the thread!

ciaranp · 02 March 2008, 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtreme

when you trim your engine up you will bring the nose up more .. so if your nose is high from the start maybe you have to much weight at the stern of the boat .. what boat is it .. can you post a pic ?

how far are you triming the engine because when it goes past a point it starts to tilt not trim and if this happens the engine will tilt back down on its own but only to the top of the trim setting (if that makes sense)

ryan

Humber detroyer 5.8m

BruceB · 02 March 2008, 22:42

If you are nose high and are struggling to get up on plane, and you shouldn't be in a 5.8m boat with 140 horses, you should be trimming IN to drop the nose and when up on plane trimming OUT to level off the boat and bring the engine up to the most efficient angle for travel.
Unless you have a large Gorilla sitting in each one of those seats I wouldn't have thought you would have any problem getting it up onto plane with you engine, heavyweight FS lump or not

ciaranp · 02 March 2008, 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceB

If you are nose high and are struggling to get up on plane, and you shouldn't be in a 5.8m boat with 140 horses, you should be trimming IN to drop the nose and when up on plane trimming OUT to level off the boat and bring the engine up to the most efficient angle for travel.
Unless you have a large Gorilla sitting in each one of those seats I wouldn't have thought you would have any problem getting it up onto plane with you engine, heavyweight FS lump or not

No problem getting up on plane when i increase speed.

Should i trim out when cruising along at around 30knots? seems to be ok trimed in when cruising.

Noticed today that when increased speed engine trimmed in itself?

BruceB · 02 March 2008, 23:05

If you have a Tacho fitted then play around as follows-
Trim in just about fully, get up on plane and start trimming out bit by bit. Watch the tacho and listen. Revs should start going up bit by bit as engine is trimmed out until you reach the most efficient point. The revs and boat speed will then start dropping. As a rule of thumb the point where revs are highest is where you will go fastest with the least fuel. On most engines you can hear the change in note (not sure about FS) and will eventually be able to set it by ear.
Try a bit of playing around with different steeings of the trim watching the tacho and listening, you'll soon get the hang of it.........

this is for flat calm, the other ways of using the trim in various types of wave and weather are a bit more complex and are harder to explain in a limited post, experience will be needed here or a good teacher.......

ciaranp · 03 March 2008, 16:34

When up on plane can't seem to trim engine out.

When i had engine trimmed out and increased speed engine trims in itself.

Any ideas what may be wrong?

BogMonster · 03 March 2008, 19:06

Sounds to me like there might be a leak (perhaps internal) in the tilt/trim ram(s). I don't think any engine "automatically" trims itself as speed increases!

rickuk3 · 03 March 2008, 19:52

Could it be that the manual tilt screw is not fully closed and is allowing the engine to trim down. What happens if you fully tilt the engine up does it slowly drop down?
Richard

BruceB · 03 March 2008, 20:58

Yep,
with the further info it does look like a trim problem. It should stay exactly where you put it no matter what speed you are doing. Looks like either a leak or the manual tilt is sightly open or passing as has been said.

ciaranp · 03 March 2008, 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickuk3

Could it be that the manual tilt screw is not fully closed and is allowing the engine to trim down. What happens if you fully tilt the engine up does it slowly drop down?
Richard

So you are saying check the manual release valve to see if its fully seated?

No problem when out of water or stopped the engine stays up and doesn't drop. It only seemed to drop yesterday when speed was increased..

rickuk3 · 03 March 2008, 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by ciaranp

So you are saying check the manual release valve to see if its fully seated?

No problem when out of water or stopped the engine stays up and doesn't drop. It only seemed to drop yesterday when speed was increased..

Its worth checking it is fully closed and seated.
May be worth tilting the engine fully up and then pulling down on it for a while and see if it starts to come down.
Just a silly thought you could not be accidently be pressing the trim button if its on the throttle?
Does it only trim down when you are above a certain revs?
Richard

ciaranp · 03 March 2008, 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickuk3

Its worth checking it is fully closed and seated.
May be worth tilting the engine fully up and then pulling down on it for a while and see if it starts to come down.
Just a silly thought you could not be accidently be pressing the trim button if its on the throttle?
Does it only trim down when you are above a certain revs?
Richard

No not pressing bu accident.

it stays up until i get past a certain revs and then trim back in..

must check if manual release is fully closed if its not that don't know what it could be, its a strange one..

rickuk3 · 03 March 2008, 22:47

With the engine stopped but ignition on trim the engine out and then slowly move the throttle to maximum and see if it trims in on its own.

ciaranp · 03 March 2008, 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickuk3

With the engine stopped but ignition on trim the engine out and then slowly move the throttle to maximum and see if it trims in on its own.

so engine stopped iginition key turned on trim out, then with engine still stopped push throttle to see if it trims or stays.

what will this then tell me?

rickuk3 · 03 March 2008, 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by ciaranp

so engine stopped iginition key turned on trim out, then with engine still stopped push throttle to see if it trims or stays.

what will this then tell me?

It will tell you if the trim wires that run down the throttle have become damaged and are shorting causing the engine to trim down.

ciaranp · 04 March 2008, 09:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickuk3

It will tell you if the trim wires that run down the throttle have become damaged and are shorting causing the engine to trim down.

ok will try this as well as the manual release next time i'm near the boat..

ciaranp · 04 March 2008, 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickuk3

It will tell you if the trim wires that run down the throttle have become damaged and are shorting causing the engine to trim down.

Rickuk3 you may be right in what your saying as it not happen until i increase throttle, its fine until i push on throttle.

I spoke with a Suzuki outboard Technician today and he said the same
it may be a short due to wires rubbing together at throttle,
cause in a slow speed the engine doesn't trim inwards its only when i increase throttle and push it forward that the trim drops in indicating the wires may short when throttle pushed forward past a certain point.

He Also said that it was probably not a hydraulic issue cause if it was the engine would trim out (not in) with the pressure of water pushing it back (trimming out) and if the hyraulic fluid was low there would be no pressure to keep it trimmed in against force of water when cruising a speed.

He said as did rickuk3 to try the trim on land, ignition on trim out a little and push on throttle to see if it happens.
must carry out a few tests the next day i'm near the rib.

BruceB · 04 March 2008, 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by ciaranp

He Also said that it was probably not a hydraulic issue cause if it was the engine would trim out (not in) with the pressure of water pushing it back (trimming out) and if the hyraulic fluid was low there would be no pressure to keep it trimmed in against force of water when cruising a speed.

This doesn't make sense, think there has been a misunderstanding or the service engineer doesn't know an outboard from a wheelbarrow! :-)
The trim is a ram that pushes the engine up away from the transom. It doesn't come back as valves stop the fluid returning. The force of an outboard at speed is pusing the engine back towards the transom and in case of any leaks or passing valves the outboard will only trim in. The only way it can trim out is if the pump is running to push fluid through the system and expand the piston holding the engine.
The most likely explanations are a short, holding the trim button in by accident or a leak/passing valve. All can cause the motor to trim In but only the first two can cause it to trim out.........