Suzuki DF20AES - prop size - Page 2

willk · 27 April 2016, 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by seadogdave

...has quoted me £69 +Vat for an 11" prop and has offered to fit it "Free of charge" if I take it there for it's annual service. he's quoted me £186 +Vat and in a bid to justify it explained it includes plugs and new impeller. Neither of these are listed on the service schedule. OK it lists a valve clearance check (which I doubt he would actually do) but it seems a lot of money for engine oil and filer and lower leg oil change.

There's a hint of vagueness in there. If he actually does what it says on the tin he'll be down engine oil, gear lube (not cheap), plugs, fuel filter, oil filter, impeller (yearly seems reasonable, but not essential - your call) and I'd guess maybe two hours labour max? The prop deal seems sweet. To keep it in warranty it seems maybe OK but I'd mark up all the consumables with paint and ask for the plugs and impeller (c/w woodruff key) as spares. Allow that a mech needs £40 plus VAT an hour to stay in business....

Fenlander · 27 April 2016, 21:49

SDDave's guy is looking for £223-20 to do his over the top service. The full service kit plus oil come to £82 so he's after £141-20 labour... too much I reckon.

If he did it by the book without plugs or impeller then parts/oil would only be £35 so I'd be thinking about the price my dealer quoted... around £100 inc vat.

SlideAway · 27 April 2016, 22:45

Thanks for your comments.
Glad to know I've not picked up a duff engine.

I agree it's not really worth worrying about, but I think I wasn't expecting any vibration at all. I think I do too much pottering, as I agree that it smooths out. That's perhaps why not noticed on the 6hp, as it probably got more of a workout. I guess I was thinking bigger = smoother, but it sounds as though we need to get to 3 or more cylinders before that becomes true ? Anyhow, all fine - it's basically a lovely engine

Not sure what pitch my prop is - maybe I can measure this ? Will then just generally monitor for a bit, as too much pottering again means no conclusive findings yet ! but looking like... occasional ventilation - and when fairly well loaded.

Fenlander · 27 April 2016, 23:21

Pitch is printed on the back of one prop blade.

I think the vibration is worse to some extent with the larger moving mass of the engine internals on the 20 vs the 6. As Jeff says the 25 has the offset crank starting to smooth out the mechanical imbalance... as well as the smoother power pulses of 3cyls.

chipko · 28 April 2016, 00:26

Dave,
Re servicing costs, I've had three annual services all at around £120 each. Bought my motor in the autumn so was over 6 months old when it went in for its first service with 18hrs on the clock. The dealer combined this with an annual service at no extra cost.
Thanks for info on your Ribeye spec. I also contacted them re conflicting info on the TS400. Website stated max 20hp and 92kg max weight, while brochure says 30hp but only 59kg weight. They were adamant 20hp max was correct and I noticed the weight on the website has now been reduced to 55kg. Seems rather low for a 4m rib to me, albeit a very light one. Shame as they seem nice boats. Considering the Highfield CL380 now instead.

Fenlander · 28 April 2016, 08:24

Seems then with Jeffs £65+vat, your £120 and my dealers quoting around £100... then £100 give or take is where it ought to be and the £200+ guys are "avin a larf".

seadogdave · 28 April 2016, 08:53

Ok I'll ring around then. Thanks.

So today I'm gonna order my new prop. Several folk selling them but nobody listing a nut kit. Not worth having a spare prop without a spare nut and I can't see one anywhere for the DF 20?

Cheers

seadogdave · 28 April 2016, 09:02

Btw, I think ribeye and Highfield have their bottoms made by the same Chinese manufacturer. They set them up adjacent to each other at the Southampton show a few years back and the similarities were uncanny.

Also, can I have a dealer name for who's providing these £100 services? If the time and place is right I could incorporate it into a weekend away some time soon.

Ta.

Fenlander · 28 April 2016, 09:52

>>>Not worth having a spare prop without a spare nut

Agreed. It was easy with my old Mercury 15 as that was a nyloc nut and a size I had to hand in my misc spares. The Suzuki has a very fine thread and didn't match anything I had.

So I've just received my prop nut, washer and split pin from Sands Marine... about the only folks I could find with them listed and in stock... boat sales,Watersports,Sailing Equipment,outboard finance,kayaks,Inflatables,Electronics

My "about £100 for a yearly service" dealer is probably nowhere you'd visit but its Ely Chandlers, Cambridgeshire...

http://www.elyboatchandlers.com/

seadogdave · 28 April 2016, 10:20

Mmm so you elected not to get the stopper. I agree that the risk of loosing that to Davey Jones' is much slimmer than the other parts, prop included and given what they're charging for it I can understand the gamble but once the prop is off there is nothing to keep the stopper on. It's all insurance at the end of the day, but if you had to fit a spare prop with the stopper missing I assume the prop would hit the gearbox housing?

My heart and wallet are conflicted over this one!

Cheers

Fenlander · 28 April 2016, 10:34

My thought is that I'd be so unlikely to lose the stopper as (on mine at least now when almost new) the stopper tends to stay on the shaft which you're going to have tilted right up... whereas with the pin, washer & nut you have no option but to take them off and risk dropping in the water.

I guess you could replicate the stopper with a combination of washers you had with you ready prepared as a get you home solution. I might check that out later.

seadogdave · 28 April 2016, 10:42

... And it looks like you just ordered the last one they had!

seadogdave · 28 April 2016, 10:56

Yes that's true. Washers or any old bush just as a get you home. I like that idea.

Thanks.

Trying to find someone with the prop, nut, split pin and some spline grease all under one roof aka shipping charge. Proving difficult.

seadogdave · 28 April 2016, 11:24

Like many a male I just read the handbook and it has thrown my mind into dissaray. With no tacho, how can I be sure the engine is indeed over revving. Sure all teh evidence leads that way but without having the UCU read can I be sure. The manual says theat when Over revving is detected for > 10 seconds teh rpm will be limited to 3000 until teh throttle is closed at which point it will reset teh ECU and good to go again. Mine doesnt do that. It just misfired a few cycles whilst flashing the red warning light then gets back on full chat. Should I spend my prop money buying a diagnostic tool. I intend getting one at some point anyway, or do I go for the prop. It's such a common problem I'm almost sure this will sort it but it doesnt fall in line with the manual. Now I know why we shouldnt read them!

Fenlander · 28 April 2016, 11:51

>>>read the handbook and it has thrown my mind into dissaray.

I've upped that stress a notch by buying the service manual and reading through!

A tacho would be ideal to prove this... see this thread... http://www.rib.net/forum/f36/best-ti...ype-71268.html

Be interested to see how you get on with sourcing the lead/software for reading the ECU... I want one eventually too... I've only found them in the USA.

Chipko will know how they behave when hitting the rev limiter.

chipko · 28 April 2016, 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenlander

Chipko will know how they behave when hitting the rev limiter.

Ha Ha! Sound like a right hooligan!
We only bounce of the limiter for a second or so (and not that often-honest), warning light flashes and engine misfires for a split second. Back off slightly and power back on instantly. I think you'd have to bounce of the limiter continuously for 10 plus seconds for the ecu to kick in 'safe mode' forcing a re-set.
We also have a tach/hour meter and limiter kicks in on the nail at 6200 revs.

Dave, for info my £120 services are from P.A. Lynch in Morpeth, Northumberland.

Stigomery · 28 April 2016, 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffstevens763@g

acording to the manual it's 20hrs or 1 month which ever sooner

This doesn't make sense to me... my engine had done no hours at 1 month... and then sat for about 1 month with only 2 hours on the clock until next run...

...surely it should be 20 hours or, if engine is in daily use a maximum of 1 month since first run?

seadogdave · 28 April 2016, 12:09

Prop selection wise a quality tachometer could be useful for under revving, but with a limiter in place youll never know how far it would go if it were allowed to. That's why Ive shied away from buying one. For an hour meter reading the ECU is again much simpler once you have the kit. A guy on fleebay was selling one which I believe to be suitable. You need the one with Version 8.0 software or later to work with the DF20. Also note that the engine needs to be running to use it unlike battery equipped EFI models. Not ideal, but that's the nature of the battery less beast.

Yes will be good to hear Chipko's description on how the over rev manifested itself on his craft.

Where did you get the service manual? there is a repository on this site for manuals but It's not on there - yet (Hint :-)

Thanks

Fenlander · 28 April 2016, 12:09

Yep I'd take it as a month of almost daily use not a month of storage.

seadogdave · 28 April 2016, 12:12

I missed Chipko's response before I posted that last reply. Yes your findings are identical to mine so I'm now once again convinced of a correct diagnosis. My engineering empathy wont let me hold it on teh limiter long enough for teh ECU shutdown to kick In I guess. Bigger prop it is then.