Suzuki DF20AES - prop size - Page 3

seadogdave · 28 April 2016, 12:34

As long as an engine is stored in a non-condensing environment I think the time frame constraints they put on oil changing is a nonsense. What's gonna happen to oil sat in a stationary gearbox that isnt gonna happen to it in the can in the shop? Granted condensation can cause moisture to emulsify the oil but in both cases it's in a in a sealed chamber with a limited amout of available moisture. Even with the engine oil, though the crank case is vented to atmosphere (or at least often the intake manifold) there is a very limited exchange of air going on when the motor isnt running. That oil which is already millions of years old isnt gonna age much more in another year is it?

Fenlander · 28 April 2016, 14:49

Have a read of your manual SDDave... how do you interpret the oil & filter intervals. You could read it as oil and filter year one, just oil but leave the filter year two then oil and filter year 3 and so on.

That is certainly true where you were running it on an hours basis... oil every 100 and filter every 200.

seadogdave · 28 April 2016, 16:03

I read it as oil every 100 hrs or 12 months whichever first, then Filter Every 12 months too unless you do 200 hrs within the first 12 months in which case change it at 200 hrs with the second oil change. It isnt the clearest is it!

Cheers

Fenlander · 28 April 2016, 16:06

No it's not totally cleart.

Have a look at 3yrs or 36mths... no oil filter required which surely fits in with every other year??

Stigomery · 28 April 2016, 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenlander

No it's not totally clear

More scope to render a warranty invalid?

seadogdave · 28 April 2016, 17:07

I think you're looking at it as if column 2 is at 1 year old, column 3 is at 2 years old and column 4 at 3 years old, but it isn't. If that was the case hen there's no more servicing after 3 years old. Instead it is every 12, 24 or 36 months unless you hit the number of hours in that column sooner, so year 3 and year 6 service is the same unless you do 300 hrs a year in which case you will do that every year instead of every 3. Clear as mud eh!

Essentially it is making sure you change the oil according to the amount of hours it has protected the running engine for, unless you don't do many hours in which case they say you need to change it coz it's got old. That takes me back to my argument about whether another year on something that's already millions of years old is gonna make much difference. I have a mint 1989 ford Sierra XR4x4 2.9 V6 that I've had from new. It does about 600 miles a year and I change the oil about every 3 years whether it needs it or not: -) still running sweet as a nut. Roll on the warranty expiration so that common sense can kick in.

Fenlander · 28 April 2016, 17:22

Well yes... and no... and that is why indeed it is clear as mud.

If it is as you read it why at 300hrs or 36mths would it show the oil filter isn't changed??

Also re it stopping at 3yrs they have detailed up to the greatest interval and expect you to know it is repeated thereafter??

I'm going to the muddy horses mouth tomorrow to find out for certain... Suzuki GB not my dealer as I want to be totally sure. I'll do it by mail so I have a recorded reply.

Fenlander · 28 April 2016, 17:36

And if you want to know just how muddy the waters the workshop manual gives the schedules in a different way compared to the handbook... showing just the extra items for the 200hrs and 300hrs/36mths.

seadogdave · 28 April 2016, 17:52

I see what you're saying, but in reality the only thing that needs to go in the 2 or 3 year interval columns are things that are not already in the 12 monthly one as they are each multiples of 12 months anyway and as such will be picked up by that. Maybe. That's the way I read now anyhow it but please do tell what the Oracle has to say about it. All good fun.

Bck to the diagnostics tool I had a thought. If it only works on the DF20 when the engine is running, what do you do if your fault prevents in from starting in the first place. OK many modern engines have limp modes etc that may allow it to start so that the ecu gets power to be interrogated, but what if it is a really fundamental failure that kills it flat. I guess in that case with a service manual and a multimeter you need to go back to old school methods. At the end of the day the dealer would be faced with the same problem other than the fact he may be able to exchange parts easier (and certainly cheaper) than we can.

chipko · 28 April 2016, 19:35

Ooer Guys. I've got service schedule brain ache now, time you guys got out on the water. 😄
Not got my service schedule in front of me now but I'm working on the 12 month/100hr items get done every year plus in year 2, 4, 6 etc. the 200hr items are added, and in year 3, 6, 9 etc the 300hr items are added, and timing belt (ouch) every four years.
As a leisure user, with low (approx. 40 hrs/yr) servicing will be based on time.
Working on the premise it's been serviced per schedule at an approved Suzuki service centre so the warranty will be intact. Not really expecting any problems though, engine runs like a dream.

Fenlander · 28 April 2016, 21:15

So if I could keep you off the water for a moment Chipko.... so do you read the requirement as an oil filter at 20hrs, not after the first year but on the second and so on.

Or are you on the SDDave schedule?

chipko · 28 April 2016, 22:39

Fenlander yes, based on your service schedule (not got access to mine at the moment, but assume it's the same) then oil filter changed at first 20hr service then 2nd, 4th, 6th year and so on. Impeller changed at 3rd, 6th, 9th year etc.

Fenlander · 29 April 2016, 09:04

>>>diagnostics tool I had a thought. If it only works on the DF20 when the engine is running, what do you do if your fault prevents it from starting in the first place... what if it is a really fundamental failure that kills it flat. I guess in that case with a service manual and a multimeter you need to go back to old school methods<<<

Yes in the workshop manual there are a huge amount of resistance tests/specs to be carried out static and also many voltage tests/specs at cranking speed. A special meter is needed for these that can measure ign system peak voltage.

In the workshop manual under special tools there are three leads mentioned.... one to direct test the injectors, another which is plugged inline with the ECU connectors to give breakout test points .... and finally one called an ECM power source cable.

Perhaps the latter is to power up and get the diagnostic history??

seadogdave · 29 April 2016, 09:45

OK the penny drops. That cable is clearly essential for static testing and I'm gonna need to get me one of those too - if they allow Joe blogs to buy one.
I think my first step is to get me one of them there manuals. Where did you get it from? I did see one seller on Fleebay but they had everything but the DF 15 & 20

Cheers

seadogdave · 29 April 2016, 09:51

Found it On t'internet. Loads of USA sellers none this side of the pond. Why are the Americans always better at that kind of thing???

Thinking laterally though - this cable plugs into the diag port then the diag cable plugs into that. As the Diag cable is a third party ebay rip off anyway why not just modify that to be able to inject 12v on the relevant pins. This is obvious when you look at the diagram in the Service booklet. Need a proper manual regardless.

Dave

Fenlander · 29 April 2016, 10:38

The manual was just a chance thing... a dealer was selling off pretty well the whole range of manuals on Ebay. Obviously new and unread. I think it was about £13 inc post and is genuine Suzuki.

I had seen others before but they were for the earlier DF20 from around 2005 and you need the DF20A 2012/2013 onwards manual for ours.

seadogdave · 29 April 2016, 10:58

Found a CD version in PDF format for £8.75. Nothing quite like a book to thumb through but at least this'll stay clean!

It said it was for the FEI models so ought to be OK.

Fenlander · 29 April 2016, 11:27

CD's fine if that's all that's available. Sometimes better actually if doing a specific job and the printed out page/s can be thrown away once oily and done with.

I have a garage/workshop specific old laptop which can be made grubby when working and I often get up online procedures from forums while working.

seadogdave · 29 April 2016, 11:35

Not sure what happened there. Didn't think the first post went so re posted and now they're both there with a slight price adjustment :-)

Had quite a few issues with posts not happening and having to re post. Anyone else see that? Got to the point where I copy all post text before submitting in case it happens again.

Yes I too have a garage laptop with car stuff on it too. Just hope what I get isn't a scan of a paper manual put onto cd, but then again anything is better than what I have now.

Cheers

jeffstevens763@g · 29 April 2016, 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenlander

My thought is that I'd be so unlikely to lose the stopper as (on mine at least now when almost new) the stopper tends to stay on the shaft which you're going to have tilted right up... whereas with the pin, washer & nut you have no option but to take them off and risk dropping in the water.

I guess you could replicate the stopper with a combination of washers you had with you ready prepared as a get you home solution. I might check that out later.

You could fit your prop bag around whilst changing just in case