Suzuki DF20AES - prop size

[Fenlander]

Jeff no it wouldn't.... that would take out lots of the hassle if it did.

The readout is related to all the inputs the ECU receives which are all related to the electrical/electronic/sensor side of things. Nothing mechanical is flagged up.

The type of things it displays are run time, revs, throttle position, engine temp, air temp, manifold pressure, barometric pressure, system voltage, injected fuel quantities etc.

The valve clearence check/setting as detailed in the handbook is just the same as doing a 1960s car!

[jeffstevens763@g]

Originally Posted by Fenlander

Jeff no it wouldn't.... that would take out lots of the hassle if it did.

The readout is related to all the inputs the ECU receives which are all related to the electrical/electronic/sensor side of things. Nothing mechanical is flagged up.

The type of things it displays are run time, revs, throttle position, engine temp, air temp, manifold pressure, barometric pressure, system voltage, injected fuel quantities etc.

The valve clearence check/setting as detailed in the handbook is just the same as doing a 1960s car!

cheers David i suppose the bigger engines are more VVT hydraulic possibly?
ah 1960's car i remember my hillman imp [shims what a game ]

[Fenlander]

Yes shims were a faff but often (when the oil was decent) would last years in spec.... that Imp engine was quite advanced compared to the screw and locknut setup on the Mini (like the Suzuki).

[chipko]

Oooh that brings back memories. My first car, Sunbeam Stiletto (Imp variant) way back in 72. Overhead cam all aluminium engine modified from a Coventry Climax fire pump engine which had some racing pedigree. If they hadn't put the damned fan cooled radiator in the back, terrible overheating problems and warped cylinder heads (although never a problem on mine) Rootes could have had a winner. Handled much better with a paving slab in the front boot. 😀
P.S. Pointless marine link.... Andy Chesman won the 1972 World Hydroplane Championship powered by a 125hp bored out 998cc modified Imp engine by Greetham Engineering.

[jeffstevens763@g]

Chipko

I had a half race imp 998 cc lowered front radiator the lot went like s--t off a shovel I got married and we needed the money so I sold the engine and replaced it with a bog standard 875 the 998 was bought by Andy witherinton who raced a side car and took it to the Isle of Man
TT. We had some great fun in that car.
Bag of sand in the front 7hp more without the fan no probs overheating with the front rad.
Cheers

[chipko]

Nice one Jeff, sounds great.
Mine also 998cc and fitted with a new fangled (then) Kenlowe electric fan which cooled it much better at low revs / traffic etc.

[jeffstevens763@g]

Originally Posted by chipko

Nice one Jeff, sounds great.
Mine also 998cc and fitted with a new fangled (then) Kenlow electric fan which cooled it much better at low revs / traffic etc.

Technical a mate.
mine being so low had to have the rad pipes internal bloody red hot all the time.your sunbeam would have the low roof then twin head lamps?

[chipko]

Jeff,
That's right

Thought it looked good in its day - not so sure now🤔
Great car though. Think the Kenlowe helped a lot, especially after being bored out to 998, plus as standard the Stiletto had an oil cooler and massive vents in the rear engine cover.
Many a happy hour spent balancing the twin Stomberg's. 😀

[jeffstevens763@g]

Brilliant mate get some wide wheels and flared arches it would look the dogs boll--s lovely house in the background.

Cheers for sharing

[seadogdave]

Getting back on topic...




It’s taken a while but I finally have some useful info to post about the servicing and the prop selection which started this whole thread off. I apologise up front for the long post.


I too wrote to Suzuki some weeks ago regarding the variance in servicing content and costs and this is what I got back after 2 weeks waiting:


Thank you for your recent e-mail. Please accept my apologises for the delay in responding.


I can confirm that the correct schedule is in the owner’s manual for the engine you have. Any changes do not apply retrospectively.


The Spark plugs and impeller are annual inspection items. The impellor has a finite life of 300 hours or 3 years.


Generally an impeller in an engine this size will not be used for 300 hours in a year so may deform when the engine is stored for long periods. Knowing this Dealerships will generally fit the new one to ensure the best outcome. Spark plugs can suffer in a similar manner so having removed them the Dealership will usually fit the new ones to exclude corrosion or fouling problems.


The service kit is a cost effective and convenient way to purchase service parts. The kit covers all service points and was filled with the general useage of an engine this size in mind (ie a single annual service). The individual parts can be provided separately to cover more frequent maintenance but his may be slightly less economic. The kit also acts as a prompt to ensure items are not missed during service work, ie internal engine anodes. It was also felt that to have a spare fuel filter and impeller to hand (should extras arise) would be useful for a marine engine.


Please also see below the maintenance schedule: …which I won’t include as you all already have it.


So I took my boat to Plymouth and had it serviced. The Estimate had been £167 but the final bill was £157. How come I asked. “Well we didn’t need to use all the parts in the service kit” they said. Looking at the service report they did not fit the plugs or impeller. No big surprise there is there.


The engine had actually recorded 16 hrs running, not 18 like I had estimated. This is interesting because they “reset the oil service reminder” but after about 3 hrs running the same day the service warning light came on. I called them and was told that “Sometimes on the batteryless models it doesn’t take first time so they came to our hotel to do it again. They weren’t armed with any computer, only a bucket! What are you going to do with that I enquired. I need to run the engine to reset the warning was the answer. So you don’t use a puter then, I asked. “No, we press the stop button three times” he said. Well I’ve already done that I told him, but I am concerned that you said you did it this morning yet it has come back. If I go 140 miles home and it happens again I wont behappy so I was hoping you’d have your computer to see why it handn’t worked” I told him. “No, I always do it like this” he said. I suggested that unless it was actually calling for a reset, ie beyond the 20 hr use, it may not accept the reset.” No” he said, “it should reset OK”. Not sure I believe that as it would be all too easy to keep resetting the clock in normal use and you’d never know where the service reminder clock was.


I also enquired whether they had the special Suzuki service cable that allows you to inject 12v into the ecu and work on it without the motor running. He had no idea what I was talking about. Oh Dear.


I paid the money and have the stamps but I’m left dissatisfied with the service and cannot wait for the warranty end nearing.


Now then, propellers. I fitted my new 11” prop and found that the boat would plane with 50St of humans, a full 25 litre tank, and anchor and a few other bits and bobs. It was slow getting up but with weight leant forward it did it. Max speed 17.6 kts. I put the 10” back on and with identical load it planed much easier and obtained a terminal velocity of …17.6 kts. I then reverted back to 11” and went out on my own. Same fuel load, anchor etc but just my 15 St and it flew onto the plane and achieved 23.3 kts. That’s 26.8 mph in old money. There was no over revving – the reason for my initial contact with the forum.


I hope there’s some useful info in here for others.

[Fenlander]

Interesting thanks.

So re the prop you're fine with a 10" & 11" depending on load... but seems a 12" would have been too much.

Servicing... sadly a fairly typical situation where Suzuki say one thing & dealers another. And no good taking a dead engine to those folks as they won't be able to diagnose it.

But it sounds like they did a half reasonable job at a price that wasn't massive like some have been quoted.

I've said elsewhere I reckon one more day out and I'll get mine serviced early. It's only the 20hr but I'll report how it works out.

[seadogdave]

Yes, the short version is that a 12" prop would be too high pitch unless you weigh about 8 stone or your boat is a hard totally flat bottom about 3 metres long. Glad I didn't go there!


And the other thing, yes still a mess in my view. They reduced the estimate by £10 to not use a pair of plugs and an impeller. Could I buy those three components for £10? I don't think so. I just wanted the stamp and to get from there. Shame to feel like that about an "Approved dealership" and it's a great shame Suzuki don't read this forum and take some comments on board.


I should just add that if anyone is thinking of buying a 370 - 380 size rib with a decent performance, you could do a lot worse than the ribeye and the DF 20. Excellent combo. Well pleased apart from the servicing issue.


Happy Boating!!

[chipko]

I'm glad you like your Suzuki DF20 motor despite all the whinging re. dealer servicing. If anyone contemplating a Suzuki reads all this negativity on dealer servicing they will probably never go for one of these motors, which would be a shame. Why do you buy a new motor with the incumbent warranty conditions and constantly bang on about service schedules when it's obvious your more comfortable and competent with servicing them yourself.
I've had mine 3 years, carefully run in and always warmed up before opening up, serviced by the book, been faultless thus far, and can honestly say the best 20hp 4 stroke I've had. Lightest 20 out there, equal or better hole shot than a 2 stroke and far more economical....what's not to like...oh yes Suzuki Dealers.
Would love to know if Honda, Yamaha, Merc/Mariner, Tohatsu owners have all this angst.
PS. Glad your getting somewhere with prop pitch. Would seriously recommend getting an hour meter/ tach, there are some good ones out there. Oh yes running the stock 10" prop, able to pull full revs and good hole shot.

[seadogdave]

[QUOTE=chipko;718444]Why do you buy a new motor with the incumbent warranty conditions and constantly bang on about service schedules when it's obvious your more comfortable and competent with servicing them yourself.
QUOTE]
Well truth is I don't expect any other manufacturers service agents would be any different. Indeed many service multiple manufacturers goods and I don't think they would treat any one brand differently to any other. The only difference seems to be how flexible the manufacturer is about who actually does the job. Certainly my experience of car dealerships is no different. My far simpler 175 Merc stroker and 75 Mariner stroker were serviced in house. If these DF20 motors had a few years more history I would likely do the same now too.

So why did I buy Suzuki? Well it wasn't the cheapest but it did have the best power to weight ratio available which is invaluable in a portable. If Evinrude had done a 25 Etec I may well have gone there, and they don't need any servicing for 3 years!

Dave

[seadogdave]

I guess I need a lesson it posting a quote!

[jeffstevens763@g]

i suppose it comes down to if you have your book stamped and at the right times then the warranty stands after that DIY for me same with my car a mate does mine hes good not cheap but goes the extra mile i dont trust garages at all through experience,OMO

[Max...]

Just read all this and it's really great to have such a detailed and long discussion on RIBnet, like the old days!

But............I can't help thinking that you should all just forget the flipping warranty!

Genuinely, how likely is it that a major mechanical catastrophe is going to befall one of these relatively simple engines?! Far more likely some little electrical widget will give up the ghost and Suzuki will say: "Ahh, sorry Sir, not covered, read the small print and goodbye".

Stick the £600 saved in servicing over five years somewhere more productive and enjoy the things!

And honestly, who ever bought a small outboard with a main dealer full service history! Won't make a happath of difference come resale, people will bite your hand off regardless. Just keep it cosmetically clean, exterior waxed, self serviced, well greased and clean under the hood.

From reading all the contributions I'm sure you lot like me would far more trust yourselves to service it properly than some unknown kid at the local (lack of)service centre.

[seadogdave]

You talk a lot of sense Max. Other than the cost of an ecu I'm with you. I'll bet they aren't cheap but they're not old enough to have any reliability history. All the electronics on this model were miniaturised for this model so it's all a little Unknown. I can see me going diy by around year 3 though.

Dave