Suzuki DF20AS 4-stroke new - Any opinions? - Page 2

chipko · 21 February 2016, 10:40

Hi Fenlander,
We've had our Suzuki DF20AS engine nearly 3 years now and has been faultless so far, although only has about 80 hrs on it. We have 2 boats, 3 engines, and only use at weekends so usage is rather spasmodic!
Main reasons for buying was lightest at 44kg and the only 20hp with battery less EFI - 3 years on these benefits still apply.
Run mine on both 3.5 Zodiac and 3.8 Aerotec and often towing 19 year old son on a kneeboard. Solo will power both boats around 24/25 mph and two up towing kneeboard 21/22 mph. Fairly quiet at cruising speeds but develops a lovely growl at WOT! Very good hole shot and has no trouble quickly pulling kneeboard on to plane. If we didn't tow regularly I would up the prop pitch to 11", as with the standard 9.25" x 10" it easily hits the rev limiter even two up. We briefly had an F-Rib 375 and really felt underpropped on this!
Not sure how economical it is compared to other 20hp four strokes but 10 litres will last a good 3.5 hrs for general hooning around - not towing but two up and using lots of throttle! The EFI provides instant starting, hot or cold, and the engine management system has the benefits of basic fault warning systems, rev limiter, safe mode, and diagnostic feedback etc.
Only downsides so far is 1 year less warranty at 5 years and slightly excessive vibration noted at low to medium revs. Also odd why the other big manufacturers have not followed suit with EFI on their 15-20 hp motors?

Fenlander · 21 February 2016, 13:56

Excellent Chipko... to hear an opinion of this engine on an Aerotec is invaluable feedback.

Interesting about hitting the rev limiter on a 10" prop. It seems they can be fitted with 9, 10 or 11 and there is no way of telling until your specific outboard is unboxed what it will be.

My local dealer has agreed that should I be unhappy with the pitch fitted then provided it hasn't been used they will swap out FOC for any other pitch in the range. I'd be OK with either a 10 or 11 and adding your experience to my own thoughts if it came with a 10 I'd buy an 11 as an upgrade/spare.

jeffstevens763@g · 21 February 2016, 14:58

9.1/2 x 10 propeller used on the you tube trial for both 15 & 20 hp engines as Per chipko for info.

Cheers

Fenlander · 23 February 2016, 11:43

Well decision made and Suzuki DF20 ordered for delivery in around two weeks. During my shall I/shan't I thoughts Suzuki UK went out of stock of this engine with the potential of a mid April or early May delivery but the local dealer has managed to get them to divert one from the EU main depot to UK so I don't have to wait.

I did have the option of buying mail order from a south coast dealer saving £90 and it was in stock ready PDI'd. However my local dealer have put some effort into this deal and I personally I think my relationship with them over routine servicing and any warranty issues will be better than had I bought elsewhere.

It's going to be fitted with an 11" pitch prop and depending on how that goes I'll buy a second 11" or 10" as a spare... never go on holiday without a spare prop.

Jeff that Russian (FOREVA) guy's Youtubes of their trials comparing outboards and props are excellent. I was most interested in his trials using rev counter and GPS with a DF15 testing 10" & 11" props and comparing each pitch with 1,2,3 & 4 folks. Here is an example...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjyQOC10sxk

An approx summary of their WOT max speed results is...

10" pitch

1 person 19.5kts 5800rpm
2 person 19.0kts 5800rpm
3 person 17.5kts 5500rpm
4 person 16.5kts 5400rpm

11" pitch

1 person 20.5kts 5600rpm
2 person 19.0kts 5500rpm
3 person 17.0kts 5200rpm
4 person 16.0kts 5100rpm

Given the extra power of the 20 over the 15 in those tests I can see why Chipko is hitting the rev limiter 2-up with his Aerotec/DF20 combo running a 10" prop.

Thanks all for the chat in this thread and the various PMs that have helped me make a decision.

jeffstevens763@g · 23 February 2016, 12:39

interesting the speeds are impressive for a 15 hp 16 kts 4 up cant grumble at that and the 200-300 RPM difference per inch of pitch does give a base to work from, plus what chippko has experienced you should be able to get bang on pitch wise for your needs.
my guess is you will have redundancy power wise and be returning decent fuel consumption at lower revs.
when you get it run in i would like to see what she will do flat out one up that will be fun!

enjoy

Fenlander · 23 February 2016, 13:39

>>>would like to see what she will do flat out one up that will be fun!

The Aerotec seems to run best with 1 + sensible "bow ballast" for which my 8st teen daughter is ideal as she likes to sit on the floor at the bow facing the stern.... so yes indeed we'll be getting some results for that config in a couple of months once run in.

As a matter of interest the specific engine I am getting was already fitted with a 12" prop but I asked the dealer to swap to the 11" before I collect... all the data I could find and put together makes it seem that may be too high a pitch when we're using it with the whole family and there's nothing worse than a motor bogging down when trying to get on the plane. If we were running it on an F-Rib or shallow GRP hull though the 12" might have been fine.

chipko · 23 February 2016, 15:50

There is a test on the Suzuki site with a DF20A on a Suzamar 360AL.
Interestingly I get very similar performance with mine in terms of speed and fuel consumption, perhaps even slightly better on a good day!

Click on link at bottom of text;
http://www.suzuki-marine.co.uk/marin...20a-lean-burn/

I think an 11" prop will be fine if lightly loaded. Mines OK on the standard 10" even though it will bounce off the rev limiter at WOT, and hole shot feels impressive. I do have an 11" prop but haven't tried it yet. I'm pretty sure it would feel bogged down with the 12" prop.

As an aside, I use a Trail Tech TTO tach and hour meter to log hours and indicate revs like this one;
Trail Tech TTO Tach Hour Meter Computer Digital Guage | eBay
Not that cheap but seems to give decent readout and has proved reliable. Great for monitoring revs and hours during running in.

Enjoy your new motor

Fenlander · 23 February 2016, 17:41

Thanks for that... I'd not seen the test before. Seems to be broadly in line with the Russian guys... and showing about 1.5kt extra for the 20hp as opposed to 15hp when both on a 10".

For me a 20 isn't about top speed but maintaining a brisk cruise when 3 or 4 up.

Going to get one of those tacho things. Also thinking about a fuel filt/water sep unit to do the very best protecting the injectors from issues.

jeffstevens763@g · 23 February 2016, 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenlander

Thanks for that... I'd not seen the test before. Seems to be broadly in line with the Russian guys... and showing about 1.5kt extra for the 20hp as opposed to 15hp when both on a 10".

For me a 20 isn't about top speed but maintaining a brisk cruise when 3 or 4 up.

Going to get one of those tacho things. Also thinking about a fuel filt/water sep unit to do the very best protecting the injectors from issues.

I got a taco/hour meter off eBay £10.00 I think it was one pikey Dave posted
The water separator is a good idea I got a small yam one £70 pacer marine

Cheers

Fenlander · 23 February 2016, 19:33

>>> I got a small yam one £70 pacer marine

Yep that is the sort of thing I was looking at... Suzuki do one at similar money that could even be the same unit. Where did you mount yours? Of course I'll have to work out something re mounting posn for my car transported setup.

Is this yours Jeff?

http://www.seamarknunn.com/acatalog/...Fekp0wodw90OBQ

Stevem · 23 February 2016, 20:07

David, It will be interesting to see how you feel about the DF20 over the course of this year, i know you will give us the good and the bad.
Unless i go for a small rib in the future, I have been thinking about this engine for my Aerotec as an upgrade from my 2 stroke.

I felt my 15 needed to be worked too hard with any more than two people which is why i upgraded to the 25. Effortless cruising. Hope it works for you.

jeffstevens763@g · 24 February 2016, 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenlander

>>> I got a small yam one £70 pacer marine

Yep that is the sort of thing I was looking at... Suzuki do one at similar money that could even be the same unit. Where did you mount yours? Of course I'll have to work out something re mounting posn for my car transported setup.

Is this yours Jeff?

Yamaha Water Separating Fuel Filter Up to 70hp Small 907944688100

Yep that's the one mounted on the transom of course your going to need a different set up, as a suggestion if you have a bar engine lock use that to mount, that way it's detachable by means of just a padlock cost around £30.
Or you could look at a cup holder type set up where it just clips over the transom or held in place by the engine clamps or clamp
Cheers

jeffstevens763@g · 24 February 2016, 08:28

just had my eBay account show a fuel separator sold by barnet marine £46.95 glass bowl.

cheers

Fenlander · 01 March 2016, 12:13

I know this Suzuki 20hp will be dealer services at least for the initial 20hr and following four yearly ones to keep up the warranty but I always like to know about my engines so just bought the official workshop manual for what I thought was a bargain £10. From these folks...

SUZUKI DF15A, DF20A FOUR STROKE OUTBOARD SERVICE MANUAL | eBay

jeffstevens763@g · 01 March 2016, 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenlander

I know this Suzuki 20hp will be dealer services at least for the initial 20hr and following four yearly ones to keep up the warranty but I always like to know about my engines so just bought the official workshop manual for what I thought was a bargain £10. From these folks...

SUZUKI DF15A, DF20A FOUR STROKE OUTBOARD SERVICE MANUAL | eBay

i had one given me but i bet there around the £50 mark to buy from Suzuki bargain at a tenner

Fenlander · 01 March 2016, 14:18

I've had countless workshop manuals over a lifetime and this Suzuki one is very impressive being clear to understand but full of detail... great bedtime reading. The dealer had better not offer any flannel at the post Pdi handover or I'll be quoting sect 2A page 5 etc.

Have you hit a timing belt change interval on yours yet Jeff?

jeffstevens763@g · 01 March 2016, 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenlander

I've had countless workshop manuals over a lifetime and this Suzuki one is very impressive being clear to understand but full of detail... great bedtime reading. The dealer had better not offer any flannel at the post Pdi handover or I'll be quoting sect 2A page 5 etc.

Have you hit a timing belt change interval on yours yet Jeff?

no only got 4 hours on her been a bit busy and changed a few things also waiting for a new dry suit to come then i will get her out and polish the ruining in hours off then i want to do some runs to look at a spare prop see if i can go up a pitch or two to have a bit of variety.
not looked at that interval yet what is it around 200hrs?

cheers

Fenlander · 01 March 2016, 14:46

Timing belt for the 20 given as a 4yr change point (with inspections at yearly service) with no mention of hours. 4yrs is an unfortunate interval as it forces you to pay for the swap to keep the 5th year warranty in force.

jeffstevens763@g · 01 March 2016, 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenlander

Timing belt for the 20 given as a 4yr change point (with inspections at yearly service) with no mention of hours. 4yrs is an unfortunate interval as it forces you to pay for the swap to keep the 5th year warranty in force.

typical but then years ago five year guarantees weren't herd of grateful for small mercies i suppose.

cheers

Fenlander · 01 March 2016, 17:13

>>>years ago five year guarantees weren't herd of

Yes it's all a balance. 4yrs is a way off yet but come the time I'll see what the cost is and balance that against the benefit of that last year's warranty.