Suzuki service

[Brinormeg]

I would just like to thank Fenlander and the rest of the good peeps here for the input into his Suzuki 20a service thread below.

Only doing a basic oils service, clean and check as it’s only done 24hrs, but reading it gave me a bit more confidence to do it myself.

Cheers David

https://www.rib.net/forum/f36/suzuki...ice-75209.html

[Fenlander]

I quite enjoy creating procedural threads so pleased it enthused you towards a DIY service.

[Steve509926]

I learned earlier this week that the guy who serviced my OB (very cheaply) has retired so I will probably go self service at the end of this year.
I'm hoping that most of the content in the thread that Fenlander did, is transferable to a 20hp efi Merc.

[Brinormeg]

Service costs are crazy up here, and if you remember I had a few issues after the service I did put to a company.
So figure to do all the basic services myself.

Might still put it in for the 4 year timing belt or if notice anything else I’m not keen on touching.

I also got the plug in software off a guy on ebay.

I’m sure the basics are much the same with the merc and if I recall correctly, you are used to tinkering about with mowers, bikes and cars in years gone by, so should be fine.

[Brinormeg]

While the owners manual does cover a few things, does anyone have a copy of the actual workshop manual for other work, torque values etc for the Suzuki 20A?

[Fenlander]

The actual workshop/repair manual for the DF20A as opposed to the user manual is hard to track down in hard copy or online.

Re your Mercury Steve I assume you have downloaded the service manual for yours? It looks very clear to follow.

https://www.powerequipmentdirect.com...41cff4a390.pdf

[Steve509926]

Thanks David, just downloaded it

Should make for interesting bedtime reading.

[Brinormeg]

Originally Posted by Fenlander

The actual workshop/repair manual for the DF20A as opposed to the user manual is hard to track down in hard copy or online.

Re your Mercury Steve I assume you have downloaded the service manual for yours? It looks very clear to follow.

https://www.powerequipmentdirect.com...41cff4a390.pdf

Yeah seems there are for others within the Suzuki range but for the 20A......its like hens teeth as they say.
For some bolts...tight and then a bit more or the 1/2 3/4 turn has served me well enough for years or but would certainly prefer to torque to spec on others. Especially as Ive invested in a new torque wrench.

[Fenlander]

I've PM'd you re a copy of the DF20A manual, so much in my head at the moment I'd forgotten I have it on Dropbox.

[Brinormeg]

Thanks very much….your a star

[Brinormeg]

So changed the engine and gear oil and I was suprised my how black and contaminated it was for an ob with only 24 hrs and changed during earlier problems and first service.

Because it wasnt running very smooth at idle before the service, I decided to swap out the plugs that came in the service kit, (cleaned up and kept the old ones for spare as they looked ok)

For under £10 for a fuel filter I was planning to change it as well but ran out of time.

On trying the ob after the oil change, plugs etc, it still isnt running any better if you see video attached.

So fresh fuel, new plugs and oils. Still to swap out fuel filter. Fuel tank vlave open. No kinks in pipes or anything else obvious that I noticed.

Seems to run fine on higher revs but rough and almost stalls in idle.

Bit of trial and error perhaps, and dont want to mess around with the ob too much before our trip away.

But what do you think the issue is?

https://youtu.be/KmRQaMXCvq0?si=TNpC2hYK292OhjUN

[Fenlander]

Certainly not right and not very confidence inspiring in case it progresses to a full stall.

I would just fit the new fuel filer to eliminate a low revs fuel flow issue.

Are there any error messages on any of the diagnostic screens?

The idle speed is ECU controlled via the IAC (Idle air control). Have a look at the manual, bottom of page 1A-24 where it has the table for unstable idle faults and go through that checklist.

You will need first to check out the IAC readings which are on the next page 1A-25, just a two step process to prove this is OK or not and if the IAC is OK onto the next items from the check list.

The other thing I'd be looking for is any live data readings that change as the near stall happens, of course you have to differentiate between a reading that is either the cause of the rev dip or a result of it.

[Brinormeg]

Originally Posted by Fenlander

Certainly not right and not very confidence inspiring in case it progresses to a full stall.

I would just fit the new fuel filer to eliminate a low revs fuel flow issue.

Are there any error messages on any of the diagnostic screens?

The idle speed is ECU controlled via the IAC (Idle air control). Have a look at the manual, bottom of page 1A-24 where it has the table for unstable idle faults and go through that checklist.

You will need first to check out the IAC readings which are on the next page 1A-25, just a two step process to prove this is OK or not and if the IAC is OK onto the next items from the check list.

The other thing I'd be looking for is any live data readings that change as the near stall happens, of course you have to differentiate between a reading that is either the cause of the rev dip or a result of it.

Hi David you were right…..it did stall.

I did fit the new fuel filter anyway, but unfortunately it wasn’t such a simple fix as we had hoped.

Tried it tonight in a barrel after work and there were no error messages on the software, until it stalled of course, and then it disconnects so can’t really tell.

No outboard warning lights are on after the start up either.

It did seem to take a few minutes to stall (perhaps once it started to heat up a little) Then it would start again first pull no problem, then stall again a couple of minutes later.

I must admit all this electronics in modern engines are a bit over my head nowadays, but will have a look at the manual you sent and see if I can get my head around it all.

I did try and video the software screens to see if I noticed anything obvious, or any errors, but nothing jumped out at me(not that I would really know what I was looking at anyway

Will upload later to YouTube to see if anyone else recognises a potential cause.

Too cold and dark now to do much more tonight , but it’s so annoying with the trip away soon that this is happening.

I thought I’ld just get away with a basic oils and filters change this time around and probably struggle to get it booked in anywhere on time now anyway.

Will have another go tomorrow if the weathers passable as we don’t have shed or garage to run it in as such.

But thanks for the trouble shooting advice so far.

[Fenlander]

>>electronics in modern engines are a bit over my head nowadays, but will have a look at the manual you sent and see if I can get my head around it all.

The way to deal with it as far as any non-dealer can is to break the diagnosis into logical chunks. Just check the IAC first as in my post 12... page 1A-25 of the manual then progress onto the broader possibilities at the bottom of page 1A-24.

Another random thought. Take the MAP sensor off the manifold and with some fishing line or similar check the sensing port is clear.

[Brinormeg]

Originally Posted by Fenlander

>>electronics in modern engines are a bit over my head nowadays, but will have a look at the manual you sent and see if I can get my head around it all.

The way to deal with it as far as any non-dealer can is to break the diagnosis into logical chunks. Just check the IAC first as in my post 12... page 1A-25 of the manual then progress onto the broader possibilities at the bottom of page 1A-24.

Another random thought. Take the MAP sensor off the manifold and with some fishing line or similar check the sensing port is clear.

Will try as suggested tomorrow to narrow things down, and go over everything in daylight in case Ive simply knocked a wire or something silly I hadn't noticed up to now.

Forecast not looking good so be limited for time but will give it a shot.

Just uploaded a few minutes of the softwate running tonight when it stalled a few times.

https://youtu.be/Af0F0DatHww?si=tgi8BdHgtFDdYCrd

[Brinormeg]

Well that’s weird?

Tried testing everything and it was fine.

Plugged it into the sds and ran it in a barrel at idle for about an hour, and it ran as smooth as it ever has done.

Took the cowl and side off to grease and check bolts and moved the attached laptop and within minutes the bugger stalled.

Put it all back together and by then laptop was dead.

Restarted with 1 pull and it ran for another 30 minutes no problem before we had to call it a day.

Tried it again tonight with cowl and everything on and it ran perfect for a hour plus at idle and various others rpm.

So back full circle to wondering (although it was fresh fuel used) if it was traces of water or old fuel causing idle issues….

If been an old carb unit it would have been a strip down and clean.

Would like to try it in gear but the last time we tried it demolished our thin little bins in seconds

If weather would only improve and we could do a harbour trial at least.

[smallribber]

Could it be a loose wire that perhaps it held in position when the cowl is on giving good connection but vibrates about with the cowl off.

[Brinormeg]

Originally Posted by Easedalenovice

Could it be a loose wire that perhaps it held in position when the cowl is on giving good connection but vibrates about with the cowl off.

Yeah still not 100% sure if cowl and sides being on/off was pure coincidence or not to be honest dennis but it did certainly cross my mind about wires.

l also wondered if connected to air flow or temperature, be it ambient air or run temps, or even moisture or something ...but ild have thought it would have thrown up some kind of fault or shown something in my testing.

But of course if connections were good during that specific time....I wouldn't have known and with the Suzuki software being powered from the outboard only while running you still can't be sure.

These intermittent faults are pain to trace unless you've got the time and space and know how to fart around with it...and of course the added hassle of bloody cold dark nights and needing a water source too.

I did spray over all the connections before testing again so this might have been a factor....God knows!

Now got to the position of trying to get proper test on the water before he head out west, because I wont get it back on time booking it in somewhere.

Although on phoning the guy at the boat yard next door to the accommodation....he said he'd get us something to use if all else fails.....so all is not lost.

[Steve509926]

Hi Brin, watching and listening to the video again Dennis could be on the right track. It does sound very much like an intermittent spark. I know you changed the plugs, but are the new ones ok, not cracked (might be an idea to try with your cleaned up old plugs) , caps firmly pushed on, HT leads in good condition.

Where are you off to on the West Coast?

[Fenlander]

>>Tried testing everything and it was fine.

Did you mean by that you've proved the IAC is OK by the manual's tests and also checked the MAP port is clear?