The annual Etec debate!

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Mollers

3 year service intervals anyone?

5 years on the new uns !

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by Chris

5 years on the new uns !

...How does that work on Anode replacement then? ...Especially on the bigger lumps?
I remember mine (130 e-tec) ALWAYS had a "yearly check"anyway!....which always seemed to cost quite a few quid!..including replacing a couple of Spark plugs and a trim ram LONG before the "Service Time" due date!

I must say The thought of leaving a modern high tec electronically advanced and very EXPENSIVE Outboard OF ANY MAKE!..... on the back of a Boat (even on a mooring in the Sea and our prevailing elements) for FIVE years!!.. between any kind of service seems utterly nuts!
And surly must be asking for trouble...not least if there is a warranty issue??

[matt h]

Hmmm. I wouldn't wanna wait 3 or 5 years before its checked over, Preventative maintenance or at least an inspection possibly could have stopped this happening on any type of outboard. Small problems or issues become large ones if left or are BRP banking on it going wrong annually anyway?

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by Maximus

...How does that work on Anode replacement then? ...Especially on the bigger lumps?
I remember mine (130 e-tec) ALWAYS had a "yearly check"anyway!....which always seemed to cost quite a few quid!..including replacing a couple of Spark plugs and a trim ram LONG before the "Service Time" due date!

What exactly were they charging you "quite a few quid" for? Unless you have a failure, there's little to check.

An Etec service isn't much more than a plug-in, set of plugs, an impellor if due and a good coat of 'looking at'.



Anodes barely fizz unless the boat is left on the water for extended periods.

Trim pump failure is a warranty item, not service.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Maximus

on the back of a Boat (even on a mooring in the Sea and our prevailing elements) for FIVE years!!.. between any kind of service seems utterly nuts!
And surly must be asking for trouble...not least if there is a warranty issue??

It would be a bit of a futile argument for Barrus to say we only recommend a service every 5 years then refuse to warrant a part because of lack of service. I agree that 5 yrs without any TLC in a salty wet environment is seriously challenging. However to me (a non-Etec owner) that shows an incredible confidence in their product / materials / engineering. (Either that or they've done the stats and discovered a typical mechanic does more harm than good poking around inside outboards?)

[matt h]

(Either that or they've done the stats and discovered a typical mechanic does more harm than good poking around inside outboards?)

Ha Ha thats soooo true!!

[kerny]

Originally Posted by matt h

Hmmm. I wouldn't wanna wait 3 or 5 years before its checked over, Preventative maintenance or at least an inspection possibly could have stopped this happening on any type of outboard. Small problems or issues become large ones if left or are BRP banking on it going wrong annually anyway?

Mmmm... looks like a broken transom saddle , I know all about that, luckily for me it was still under warranty

My first service cost me £429.44 and I had to be brought round with smelling salts after being presented with the bill ... but divide that by three I suppose it wasn't all that bad

[1eyedjim]

The broken saddle picture is a scary sight

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by 1eyedjim

The broken saddle picture is a scary sight

Pretty scary to have it happen at full chat I'd imagine.

[Maximus]

The thing is I'm not knocking e-tech engines just thier silly and mis leading (IMV) claims concerning the maintanece schedule!
I don't recall...but is it incumbant on the etec owner to have a yearly check by a qualified engineer or not?? my point about the anodes??

I know my Suz 250 has loads and some are quite hard to access... And They are ALL very important...infact vital!
I do know it doesn't take long (with ANYTHING like-normal useage) for a sizeable outboard and the electrostatic forces generated to EAT into anodes!..regardless if the Boat is KEPT on the water or NOT..Most damage is done when underway.
I have all parts replaced returned to me by my engineer and it's easy to see the sacrificial damage on the anodes!..after 12 months...let alone Five years!
None of us like paying inflated service charges for sure,my point being (as a former owner) if you think you can wait Three and now...Five years! between any sort of maintenance on ANY OUTBOARD engine used in a regular way in Salt water and expect trouble free Boating you're in Cloud Cuckoo land!

I had mine looked at YEARLY ( and was happy to pay it for the peace of mind) as a point of pre-emptive maintenance,as I didn't/don't want a failure that maybe eassily avoided by a check over...today done mostly with a lap top! and on the two yearly checks I had there were things needed to be addressed...Two plugs failing the Ram and an injector glitch...apart from the plugs all sorted under warranty..the point being IF the engine had NOT been checked over.....ALL could have resulted in a failure at Sea.
And that was an engine on the Boat kept in Shed truly pampered and washed/polished after each outing.
I do seem to remember Mollers having a corrosion issue some time ago...again if memory serves only discoverd after he removed the leg cowling???....
NOT the sort of thing that improves if left for Five years.

[matt h]

The thing is I'm not knocking e-tec engines just their silly and mis leading (IMV) claims concerning the maintenance schedule!
I don't recall...but is it incumbent on the etec owner to have a yearly check by a qualified engineer or not?? my point about the anodes??

I know my Suz 250 has loads and some are quite hard to access... And They are ALL very important...in fact vital!
I do know it doesn't take long (with ANYTHING like-normal usage) for a sizeable outboard and the electrostatic forces generated to EAT into anodes!..regardless if the Boat is KEPT on the water or NOT..Most damage is done when under way.
I have all parts replaced returned to me by my engineer and it's easy to see the sacrificial damage on the anodes!..after 12 months...let alone Five years!
None of us like paying inflated service charges for sure,my point being (as a former owner) if you think you can wait Three and now...Five years! between any sort of maintenance on ANY OUTBOARD engine used in a regular way in Salt water and expect trouble free Boating you're in Cloud Cuckoo land!

I had mine looked at YEARLY ( and was happy to pay it for the peace of mind) as a point of pre-emptive maintenance,as I didn't/don't want a failure that maybe eassily avoided by a check over...today done mostly with a lap top! and on the two yearly checks I had there were things needed to be addressed...Two plugs failing the Ram and an injector glitch...apart from the plugs all sorted under warranty..the point being IF the engine had NOT been checked over.....ALL could have resulted in a failure at Sea.
And that was an engine on the Boat kept in Shed truly pampered and washed/polished after each outing.
I do seem to remember Mollers having a corrosion issue some time ago...again if memory serves only discovered after he removed the leg cowling???....
NOT the sort of thing that improves if left for Five years.

Its not exactly supporting the few dealers they have left now. so you leave it for 5 years years just when the warranty expires and you then gotta pay for the repairs!
I don't know of any other equipment that says, don't run it in and rag it for 5 years and by the way, don't take it to a dealer as they wont be there due to lack of income and they are now just box shifters!

[Poly]

Originally Posted by matt h

Its not exactly supporting the few dealers they have left now. so you leave it for 5 years years just when the warranty expires and you then gotta pay for the repairs!
I don't know of any other equipment that says, don't run it in and rag it for 5 years and by the way, don't take it to a dealer as they wont be there due to lack of income and they are now just box shifters!

Or turning that around:

Every other manufacturer is propping up its dealer network with unnecessary service intervals, carrying our work that is either totally unnecessary or could have been engineered out.

[matt h]

Very true indeed but at least if something is gonna go wrong potentially it could be picked up and dealt with Poly.
I wouldn't say that an annual service is unnecessary. I could not name any other technical bit of equipment that does not require either a check over and/or a service that carries passengers into inhospitable areas with potentially life threatening situations.

Can you?

[kerny]

[OSPREY RIBS]

The Service schedule (attached) gives a list of things for the owner to check.....these include the anodes. all of which are replaceable by anyone that can turn a spanner....

The G2 Gearbox now has a reservoir under the engine cowl so you can check the gearbox oil level and oil quality without even touching the gearbox.

Other than that the range of sensors and probes installed give a huge amount of data and will flag up problems before they become terminal.

I guess that BRP are confident enough in their engineering and electronic design skills to rely on this.

If you don't feel confident to check the anodes and replace as necessary or check the gearbox oil by looking under the hood or check the bolts that are holding the engine on are tight then I guess you could always pay someone to do it

[matt h]

unnecessary service intervals,

I dont think 10 and then every 100hrs comes under that banner! £140 for the first service on a yam F70 is pretty good in my book!

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Maximus

The thing is I'm not knocking e-tech engines just thier silly and mis leading (IMV) claims concerning the maintanece schedule!
I don't recall...but is it incumbant on the etec owner to have a yearly check by a qualified engineer or not?? my point about the anodes??

They don't require any marine engineer inspection:

No dealer-scheduled maintenance for the first three years of normal recreational use? Really?
• Yes! BRP knows you want to spend your time out on the water, not servicing your Evinrude
E-TEC outboard. There are no valves to adjust, belts to service, chains to replace, or oil to
change. We do recommend pre-launch inspections of your outboard at each use and at regular
intervals. Salt water applications require minimal additional inspections and lubrication.

If you read the manual then for salt water use the anodes should be inspected annually (all are apparently visible from outside the engine with the casing on). And that some parts are greased annually. But it seems you can DIY that.

I know my Suz 250 has loads and some are quite hard to access... And They are ALL very important...infact vital!
I do know it doesn't take long (with ANYTHING like-normal useage) for a sizeable outboard and the electrostatic forces generated to EAT into anodes!..regardless if the Boat is KEPT on the water or NOT..Most damage is done when underway.
I have all parts replaced returned to me by my engineer and it's easy to see the sacrificial damage on the anodes!..after 12 months...let alone Five years!

if your boat is eating anodes in 12 months of recreational use and stored ashore I'd suggest it has a problem.

I had mine looked at YEARLY ( and was happy to pay it for the peace of mind) as a point of pre-emptive maintenance,as I didn't/don't want a failure that maybe eassily avoided by a check over...today done mostly with a lap top!

if a laptop is able to spot the issue then you'd think the EMM could simply send an alert to the user to "check engine". In reality there are MANY outboard engines that survive this sort of neglect (certainly in the 2stroke world) between service intervals even though they were never designed for it.

...the point being IF the engine had NOT been checked over.....ALL could have resulted in a failure at Sea.

there are many things which cause failures at sea. I believe the most common reason for RNLI call outs to motor boats are not actually to do with those problems inside the engine but to lack of fuel or contaminated fuel. Etecs have been around long enough that if they were affecting those stats we would know. Its more likely that any issue triggers a limp home rather than a total failure anyway. Even at that I can't say I have noticed a trend that those coming here with engine issues are from one brand more than others. In fact I can't remember the last time that any of the engine owners I know had a real problem on an engine less than 15 yrs old of any brand - that wasn't either related to an issue with what was in the fuel tank (or lack of!) or an electrical issue which probably wouldn't have shown up if the engine had been for a service the day before!

And that was an engine on the Boat kept in Shed truly pampered and washed/polished after each outing.
I do seem to remember Mollers having a corrosion issue some time ago...again if memory serves only discoverd after he removed the leg cowling???....
NOT the sort of thing that improves if left for Five years.

Presumably though BRP have enough information from Etecs to understand the faults that happen over five years otherwise they wouldn't have extended the scope from 3 to 5 years.

The reality is if most outboards are neglected it might be better to have one that was designed to be? Now would it be worth more at the end of that period if it had a wad of test data or receipts showing it had been looked after by a professional - of course it would.

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by OSPREY RIBS

Other than that the range of sensors and probes installed give a huge amount of data and will flag up problems before they become terminal.

Agreed.

If a relatively new outboard were to fail at sea, I'd suggest that the cause would most likely not be something that would've been picked up by a visual check in a workshop.

A low hour, 12mnth old OB which is well short of requiring a service, is not going get any more than 10mins of a service technician's time, most of which will be writing out a bill.
Unless the Icommands are reporting a fault or something has obviously broken, there is nothing to do.

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by Maximus

I do seem to remember Mollers having a corrosion issue some time ago...again if memory serves only discoverd after he removed the leg cowling???....
NOT the sort of thing that improves if left for Five years.

Nope, no corrosion. My post was to inform others to wash out behind mid-section cowl on winterization as it is a potential salt trap.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by matt h

Very true indeed but at least if something is gonna go wrong potentially it could be picked up and dealt with Poly.
I wouldn't say that an annual service is unnecessary. I could not name any other technical bit of equipment that does not require either a check over and/or a service that carries passengers into inhospitable areas with potentially life threatening situations.

Can you?

Do other marques never have problems in inhospitable areas? Your straw man fails if the alternative is no more "fool proof". BRP don't recommend you never look at the engine - in fact quite the opposite as Osprey has posted (and it may even be that the operator looking at it frequently is more reliable for spotting subtle changes than an engineer once a year in a shed) - what they say is there is nothing you can't to yourself, no special tools, no special skills, no oils or filters to routinely change. I certainly check over my Yamaha more often than its annual service - don't you?

Which other bits of equipment were you thinking of? BRP make snowmobiles with Etec engines - I'd guess they have similar service schedules. Anything with a 4-stroke is incomparable as they will need a sump oil change as a minimum.

Oh, and whilst an outboard failing at sea is never nice, I'd suggest it should also never be "life threatening" as you suggest either - provided its being used in a sensible manner by a competent well equipped skipper. If you can point to any example where an Etec engine failure (on a boat with such a skipper) has directly contributed to loss of life I will of course retract my comment.