The "auxilliary or not?" argument

[Xk59D]

Originally Posted by 69cmw

Does this Sea Start brigade cover the West coast of Scotland by any chance? [emoji848][emoji848][emoji848]

Not I'm aware of, there was one briefly on the clyde out of kip marina but they went out of business, may have something to do with amount of aux engines you see round here?

Iirc it was about 200 quid a season for coverage, I seen them at kip boat show about 6 years ago.

[Xk59D]

Originally Posted by totallydave

Thanks all - I didn't set out to start a fight about who thinks what.

Sounds like 8hp-15hp are what I need to look at. I appreciate they are not going to blast me home in a storm, it's more a case of keeping some seaway if I run into a problem - perhaps buying time whilst trying to solve main engine or waiting for rescue.

As I've only recently moved up from a 5.5m to an 8m, I just assumed that the only solution to fitting said aux was a 'lifting aux bracket', but seems some are suggesting I put it straight on the transom. I guess there's room, but that would mean either putting it on when needed or dragging it around permanently.

Thoughts on this?

I don't keep my 8hp on permanent but no reason I can't. Like you I don't like it bouncing about and since I'm in company maybe 75% of the time and my back is jiggered I leave it at home unless I'm going out myself.

If you can get it on the transom and it isn't being constantly submerged then that is way to go imo.

you are doing the right thing imo thinking of an aux as it at the worst case will give you some degree of steerage until sea start (if you have it?) Or a good Samaritan reaches you if not an emergency. It may well take you or get you closer to home at least in some cases unless you pay zero attention to forecasts

There is zero and I mean zero good excuses not to have an aux if it is a viable option imo (some boats are too big, literally no where to put them etc). Saying otherwise is akin to not advocating use of life jackets.

[Fender]

Originally Posted by 69cmw

Does this Sea Start brigade cover the West coast of Scotland by any chance? [emoji848][emoji848][emoji848]

Your a brave man - Considering joining a paid sea based breakdown service is categorically NOT taking personal responsibility , forget ALL other means and methods of recovery / rescue – unless you run a auxiliary engine you are a naughty naughty boy

[Last Tango]

Originally Posted by Fender

1. 'I agree' - wasn't expecting that
2. 20-30ml, perfect conditions maybe, however just one mile in a head sea against tide would take a loonnnggggg time - that's if you weren't going backwards
3. 100 yards away from a reef / headland..................personally I'd immediately try to anchor and then deal with the boat issue ( I've done it now! )

And if your thirty mile offshore it could take a looooooonnnnggggg time before help got there.. If you've got the VHF range to summon help.

100yds from shore you're going to anchor in 60-70 mtrs of water with a 2mtr swell.....that's going to work well and what's next if you can't solve the problem...
Again.....get someone else to get you out of your predicament.

Continually relying on others for your salvation is not the way you should be thinking.

[Fender]

Originally Posted by Xk59D

There is zero and I mean zero good excuses not to have an aux if it is a viable option imo (some boats are too big, literally no where to put them etc). Saying otherwise is akin to not advocating use of life jackets.

Wow
All the 100's of thousands of boat owners that don't run aux's can't all be wrong - and to say everyone that doesn't run aux's is endangering life ( Xk59D comparison to life jackets use) is absolutely bonkers

When coastguard are dealing with a P/P or Mayday, they check all the basic's, location, situation, POB, what assistance is required, is every wearing life jackets etc.................... funny enough I've never heard them asking the casualty if they've deployed the aux!!

[Xk59D]

Reading what you want again rather than what I wrote, you seem good at that tbf. The good thing for us is if you break down you can simply get up out the paddling pool and walk into the house. Keep the RNLI for the more unfortunate people.

[Fender]

Originally Posted by Last Tango

And if your thirty mile offshore it could take a looooooonnnnggggg time before help got there.. If you've got the VHF range to summon help.

100yds from shore you're going to anchor in 60-70 mtrs of water with a 2mtr swell.....that's going to work well and what's next if you can't solve the problem...
Again.....get someone else to get you out of your predicament.

Continually relying on others for your salvation is not the way you should be thinking.

A 2 meter swell will be great fun with just a aux pushing you along I'd still try to anchor first, everytime

I said I'd anchor and then deal with the issue, when did I 'get someone else' involved?? You seem hung up on me needing constant help - do you know how many times have I needed help on the water? FYI never

[Fender]

Originally Posted by Xk59D

Reading what you want again rather than what I wrote, you seem good at that tbf. The good thing for us is if you break down you can simply get up out the paddling pool and walk into the house. Keep the RNLI for the more unfortunate people.

House, paddling pool, RNLI, people, walking - whatever!!

Please, enlighten me, explain in easy to understand language why not using a aux is akin to not advocating the use of life jackets.

Are you saying they are as important as each other on a boat?

Are you stating that all boat owners are irresponsible and safety naïve if they don't fit a aux on their boat, are they actively endangering their crew / family lives?

Where the evidence that proves your 'claim', life jackets save numerous lives every year - FACT, what stats have you on aux engines?

Like I said earlier Wow!

So, over to you, and their your words, not mine, it reads as you wrote it

There is zero and I mean zero good excuses not to have an aux if it is a viable option imo (some boats are too big, literally no where to put them etc). Saying otherwise is akin to not advocating use of life jackets.

[Lee argyle]

Originally Posted by Xk59D

I don't keep my 8hp on permanent but no reason I can't. Like you I don't like it bouncing about and since I'm in company maybe 75% of the time and my back is jiggered I leave it at home unless I'm going out myself.

If you can get it on the transom and it isn't being constantly submerged then that is way to go imo.

you are doing the right thing imo thinking of an aux as it at the worst case will give you some degree of steerage until sea start (if you have it?) Or a good Samaritan reaches you if not an emergency. It may well take you or get you closer to home at least in some cases unless you pay zero attention to forecasts

There is zero and I mean zero good excuses not to have an aux if it is a viable option imo (some boats are too big, literally no where to put them etc). Saying otherwise is akin to not advocating use of life jackets.

Got to say, the last paragraph, ridiculous

[Last Tango]

Originally Posted by Fender

A 2 meter swell will be great fun with just a aux pushing you along I'd still try to anchor first, everytime

I said I'd anchor and then deal with the issue, when did I 'get someone else' involved?? You seem hung up on me needing constant help - do you know how many times have I needed help on the water? FYI never

Hate to burst your bubble.... quote from SeaStart's advert....

"Sea Start provides waterborne cover within (up to) a 3 mile radius of certain designated ports and harbours".

So if youre 20-30 mls offshore they're not coming to get you.

So it's back to your free convenient breakdown recovery service the RNLI. (or any other passing boater who's day you're happy to ruin by taking them 30mls out of their way). Because, despite all the "please help me" paraphernalia you've bought, you still feel there's no obligation on you to get yourself out of the situation.

If someone says I can't afford an AUX, I can't get one to fit on my transom, I'm not fit enough to pull start one......I would have some sympathy, but to actually advocate not having one is absolutely on a parr with advocating not wearing life jackets.

[Sutty]

I have never used an auxiliary engine as I take my tips from the RNLI and notice that they don’t fit/use them, surely we are not suggesting that they are negligent and potentially liable if they broke down and not had an auxiliary engine

[Last Tango]

Originally Posted by Sutty

I have never used an auxiliary engine as I take my tips from the RNLI and notice that they don’t fit/use them, surely we are not suggesting that they are negligent and potentially liable if they broke down and not had an auxiliary engine

I think you'll find most of their RIBs and "All weather " vessels have two engines.

[pilotwillie]

Originally Posted by totallydave

... I guess there's room, but that would mean either putting it on when needed or dragging it around permanently.



Thoughts on this?

If you’re gonna carry one then put it where you’ll need it, straight onto your transom [emoji1303]

[Xk59D]

Originally Posted by Lee argyle

Got to say, the last paragraph, ridiculous

Says the guy with a 350hp aux lucky you!

[Bern Hanreck]

I'm another aux. fan , ready mounted to go ! Xk59D mentions regularly starting them up , I would add put them in both gears ( forward & reverse ) or when you need them they may start up but not engage gear .

[Xk59D]

Originally Posted by Fender

House, paddling pool, RNLI, people, walking - whatever!!

Please, enlighten me, explain in easy to understand language why not using a aux is akin to not advocating the use of life jackets.

Are you saying they are as important as each other on a boat?

Are you stating that all boat owners are irresponsible and safety naïve if they don't fit a aux on their boat, are they actively endangering their crew / family lives?

Where the evidence that proves your 'claim', life jackets save numerous lives every year - FACT, what stats have you on aux engines?

Like I said earlier Wow!

So, over to you, and their your words, not mine, it reads as you wrote it

There is zero and I mean zero good excuses not to have an aux if it is a viable option imo (some boats are too big, literally no where to put them etc). Saying otherwise is akin to not advocating use of life jackets.

I say again and quote directly from what you seem intent on mis-quoting....

"relying on passing boats that will tow you in is bordering on negligent"

I never said you NEED an aux, RELYING ON OTHERS PASSING BY IS BORDERING ON NEGLIGENCE. Get sea start, an aux or something atleast (both would be great) so you are not relying on passers by. I realise you may still not understand, will mis read and maybe even mis-quote it again but I have done my best.

So, the choice is simply this if you have a completely knackered main engine and out alone-

1. Use the aux
2. Use your sea start membership (not an option I have or would certainly look at it)
3. A passer by with something suitable for towing
4. Coastguard
5. Via the shore and maybe bye bye boat by time 2, 3 or 4 reach or 1 starts.
6. Drop anchor and wait on whichever comes first from 2, 3, 4 or 5.
7. Anchor fails or wont hold for any reason- start list again.

What have I missed? Pick your poison and be happy.

If someone can tell me just one time they regretted having a working aux when stranded I'll put a donation into RNLI for each one and I'll post proof up.

Fender, you fancy the opposite? do the same but for those who regretted not having an aux or don't have one but really should and they know it deep down.

[Xk59D]

Originally Posted by Bern Hanreck

I'm another aux. fan , ready mounted to go ! Xk59D mentions regularly starting them up , I would add put them in both gears ( forward & reverse ) or when you need them they may start up but not engage gear .

I like to run mine for maybe an hour if out myself while eating lunch, no guarantee it will start ofcourse when needed but you can only do so much.

[Lee argyle]

Originally Posted by Xk59D

Says the guy with a 350hp aux lucky you!

Regardless of whatever I run that BS about comparing having a aux outboard to life jackets on a boat however you word it or want to be quoted is nonsense, farcical and bordering delusional - that is from someone who has spent his life on the water inc a number of years saving lives on a Solent lifeboat. Sorry you might not like it but that’s my opinion from your ridiculous statement

[Last Tango]

Originally Posted by Lee argyle

Regardless of whatever I run that BS about comparing having a aux outboard to life jackets on a boat however you word it or want to be quoted is nonsense, farcical and bordering delusional - that is from someone who has spent his life on the water inc a number of years saving lives on a Solent lifeboat. Sorry you might not like it but that’s my opinion from your ridiculous statement

Did the RIBs & all Weather Life boats you served on have two engines.

Why does your own boat have two engines when you feel it would be safer with just one? This is what's truly ridiculous about this argument.

A lifetime at sea can create complacency you wouldn't want to pass on to others.....I've seen it with fishermen and I guessing you wouldn't try talking someone out of fitting an AUX.

[Lee argyle]

Originally Posted by Last Tango

Did the RIBs & all Weather Life boats you served on have two engines.

Why does your own boat have two engines when you feel it would be safer with just one? This is what's truly ridiculous about this argument.

A lifetime at sea can create complacency you wouldn't want to pass on to others.....I've seen it with fishermen and I guessing you wouldn't try talking someone out of fitting an AUX.

??????

My post was clearly directed towards Xk59D and his BS statement about lifejackets and not looking a argument from you!!
When did I say I feel my boat would be safer with just one engine?? Wtf!!

Please don’t reply, not interested